Matrix Games Forums

I am playing soviets starting at Stalingrad.
I am currently trying to build up an air force.
I would like to have fighters get trained pilots, bombers only normal, or train untrained in the pool.

I am constantly short of pilots. I know I need to stop the dramatic loss in interceptions / combat losses.

Can I configure bombers to only get untrained pilots - does normal do that or will it assign any spare trained first? Fighters set to priority or TPO.

I am thinking on my next start I will have to restrict that and take the vast majority of fighters off the map, or stop them intercepting - maybe by keeping them busy wiith missions.

Are there any really good guides on this? Should I bring all fighters back and just concentrate everything on one theatre to gain local superiority, and expand from there?

Should I make one night bomb assigment per air HQ? does it give any value

Thanks for any replies in advance. I try not to just post a thanks to avoid people opening an email with no other content.

Try reading this AAR

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=398345

Thanks, that is very interesting, a few questions....

Does sending an air unit with pilots but no (or not enough ) planes still delete any pilots without planes?
Happy to take the xp averaging, but if it deletes 90% of my pilots that is a problem.

Is it possible to configure units in the reserve or map to only take untrained new pilots.
I would like to have some sqn train up new pilots in the reserve, accepting a long train time to keep pilots for priority.
Or do you just have ones with very high xp adding a few noobs a turn?

As in if you say add pilots - will it always take trained or free pilots first - even if set to normal?

I think I have been losing pilots by sending sqn with no planes to reserve. from this I take it they are destroyed not pooled.


I take from that, that having one or 2 at least very well trained pilots is very important to combat, as the most experienced pilot sets the combat level in flight.

Less important - can you transfer U2 (biplane night pilots) to any other plane - eg IL2 later.

If you train to National morale in the reserve - what is the best way of getting them more experience - Fighter bombing? finding some 'safe sector' at the limit of German logistics to flood with newbs, hoping they can't spare the supplies? or other theatres?

Talking from a soviet position here, - esp trying to have pilots when units grow in size.

Do you flood units with AA guns (support) , then try and coax enemy into battle? I have tried putting AA onto all my units around Stalingrad - esp next to airfields to try to deplete enemy air on the resupply.

I get the feeling that it is better to withdraw units and concentrate on a few theatres to build the force (pilots and ensuring enough planes).
Do you usually set fighters to rest after your turn to prevent massive losses intercepting the German attacks? - or is it just having sqn with a few good pilots in the area.

Is there any way of setting a minimum size to the auto intercept missions?

Thanks
What might be a good idea is a pinned list of very good AAR to help with different categories - air / support etc.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm Does sending an air unit with pilots but no (or not enough) planes still delete any pilots without planes?

This has been fixed. The pilots with no planes go to the "free" pool now. From there they can go to air groups using the same plane type.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm Is it possible to configure units in the reserve or map to only take untrained new pilots.

Not directly. You can set a number of air groups to trained pilots only. Then you set other air groups to Priority, which will get a mix of trained and untrained pilots. Then the air groups at Normal only get untrained pilots.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm As in if you say add pilots - will it always take trained or free pilots first - even if set to normal?

It takes the most experienced free pilots first.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm I think I have been losing pilots by sending sqn with no planes to reserve. from this I take it they are destroyed not pooled.

This was an old bug. It should be fixed now. They should be going to the free pool.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm I take from that, that having one or 2 at least very well trained pilots is very important to combat, as the most experienced pilot sets the combat level in flight.

Correct.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm Less important - can you transfer U2 (biplane night pilots) to any other plane - eg IL2 later.

U-2 groups don't generally upgrade to Il-2. But if you get trained U-2 pilots into the free pool, for example by disbanding U-2 groups, these trained bomber pilots can be used by Il-2 groups.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm If you train to National morale in the reserve - what is the best way of getting them more experience - Fighter bombing? finding some 'safe sector' at the limit of German logistics to flood with newbs, hoping they can't spare the supplies? or other theatres?

You have a tiny chance of gaining experience with each sortie, it can take hundreds of missions to get a single point of experience. You have a bigger chance by killing enemy aircraft, but this is dangerous. Realistically most pilots will die, either in combat or as an operational loss, before getting any more experience. Your best chance is probably running range zero air supremacy, right on top of a level 3 airbase, every day for several months.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm Do you flood units with AA guns (support) , then try and coax enemy into battle?

You can do that. It's effective against bombers, not as much against enemy fighters.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm Do you usually set fighters to rest after your turn to prevent massive losses intercepting the German attacks? - or is it just having sqn with a few good pilots in the area.

In areas with a lot of German fighters it's probably a good idea to set Soviet aircraft to rest at the end of the Soviet turn. The longer the aircraft range, the more likely they will get into trouble.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:12 pm Is there any way of setting a minimum size to the auto intercept missions?

I don't think so. Auto-intercept doesn't seem to follow any settings that are controlled by the player.

Thanks again.
I wanted to keep all trained pilots for fighters, and have bomber units train novices in the pool, so I would have trained pilots for fighters when the squadron size changes.
I guess I just have to live with not adding pilots to those units until after the size change, but I will probably have to leach pilots to the pool.

Ta for the other info.

If I set air superiority missions in the rear with untrained pilots, is that likely to have a faster or slower training rate that in the reserves? Loss rate?
Understand a L2 or 3 airbase in winter would be adviseable.
If the pilots are not lost now, it is probably better to send them to pool I assume.
The main problem I have with Stalingrad start is fighter shortage, I will try to rest more after my turn, and check the xp more carefully.
If I run out of fighters then I spend a lot of time switching fighters, only to have to change again (presumably because the theatres also see spare airframes!)

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:08 pm Thanks again.
I wanted to keep all trained pilots for fighters, and have bomber units train novices in the pool, so I would have trained pilots for fighters when the squadron size changes.
I guess I just have to live with not adding pilots to those units until after the size change, but I will probably have to leach pilots to the pool.

Set all fighters to replace priority and all bombers to normal. That's all you do.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:08 pm If I set air superiority missions in the rear with untrained pilots, is that likely to have a faster or slower training rate that in the reserves? Loss rate?

No appreciable difference. It also doesn't matter a great deal.

Training pilots in the Soviet Air Force is an overrated process with a minimal impact to be honest. The main item here is found in the manual, section 16.7.4.

Training missions can result in an increase in pilot experience and a possible increase in the air group unit morale rating. If pilot experience is higher than that nation’s current air national morale, the chances for experience to increase through training are much lower.

In addition, pilots with experience ratings over 50 will have less chance to gain experience through training than pilots with experience less than 50.

There are a number of things here.

You don't need training to improve unit morale. Resting them does exactly the same thing.

Until you get to April 1943, Soviet National Morale is 45. That means the time it takes for you to go from experience level <45 to 45 is reasonable, but once you hit 45 it slows considerably.

Unit pilots with experience over 50 gain next to nothing in training. What's written in the manual is terribly misleading if not flat out wrong. An experience level of 50 is basically the ceiling for a unit trying to improve their experience level. Then consider this:

Here is a breakdown of pilots who recorded air-to-air kills in a game I have ongoing into July 1942:



I have 737 pilots who have 988 recorded air-to-air kills. Nearly 78% of those pilots who recorded a kill had experience from 60-99. Those with 70+ experience had an average of 1.6 kills per pilot and it fell to 1.4 for those with experience between 60-69.

Now there are 167 pilots, experience 51-59 who scored 192 kills with an average of 1.1 air-to-air kills. They accounted for 19.4% of all kills.

This leaves us with 29 pilots that shot down 29 planes and who account for only 2.9% of all air-to-air kills. There were 6 pilots with experience 50 that keep in mind is effectively the training ceiling, while 23 were below 50 experience.

So, ask yourself what is the purpose of putting a unit through training either on map or in the reserves for weeks or even months on end, out of action, trying to get a handful of pilots to an experience level that at best contributes less than 3% of total air-to-air kills. You may as well just assign low experience fighter units on escort duty where enemy fighters are seldom encountered.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 3:08 pm If the pilots are not lost now, it is probably better to send them to pool I assume.
The main problem I have with Stalingrad start is fighter shortage, I will try to rest more after my turn, and check the xp more carefully.
If I run out of fighters then I spend a lot of time switching fighters, only to have to change again (presumably because the theatres also see spare airframes!)

The problem you have is not the problem you think you have. It's not that you have too many fighters, it's that you have too many units.

You start with 170 fighter regiments on map and 10 in the reserves. A total of 180 fighter regiments require 3,600 fighters.

First question, do you really need 3,600 fighters? I stress the word need. You build your air force to fit the task of supporting the army in the field. Growing a fighter arm or the air force in general as large as possible is not an end to itself. And what are you going to do with 7,200 fighters once the regiments double in size while the Luftwaffe is withdrawing fighter groups to the West?

Second question, if you don't need all of these, what's a good number? Well you decide that for yourself. But all these planes need airfields, not just the fighters but your entire on-map force. I'd suggest 100-120 would be plenty of fighter groups, but that's just me.

Third question, if you are going to disband fighter units do you do it soonest. Answer is, you will be seeing some fighter regiments convert to Guards in 1943 which get improved morale and experience so you may want to wait for some of those conversions to take place. Then you can choose to disband the non-Guards regiments.

Thanks, will have another try.

PS have you read Black cross Red Star.
5 volumes I think on air war in Russia.
Have bought some more as bought one years ago. The new reprint series is in great detail and with great photos.

trooperrob wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 10:49 pm Thanks, will have another try.

PS have you read Black cross Red Star.
5 volumes I think on air war in Russia.
Have bought some more as bought one years ago. The new reprint series is in great detail and with great photos.

No, but I've read Red Phoenix Rising which has useful appendices for understanding things like air army composition and history, as well as the growth of the force over time.