Flight Planning Challenges 1328.12

[pgatcomb]

I was building some videos about striking split targets using aircraft and I came across a bug where flight plans don't 'update' after being deployed regardless of how they are arranged. You'll see from the attached video (take special attention to the comments about 'working around' that despite careful precautions, only the flight lead follows a special flight plan even though all units are shown to share it in the flight itself.

The save and video are attached.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z5rGjZjlxo

[thewood1]

I get a gray square that says can't connect to youtube.

And to add...I have continued investigation of the flight planning capability to better document it in the new manual and the FAQ. But I have not received enough info on what some of the key functions are supposed do to document them. So I have started to gather what info I can and experiment, but keep running into errors and obscure features that have zero documentation. So its a slow process.

Some stuff I need a better understanding/explanation of:

Flight Plan templates
Patrol flight plans for follow on flights
Relationship of dynamic missions to flight plans
Pre-generated vs AI-generated differences
...and bunch more I can't remember off the top of my head.

[pgatcomb]

I agree to all, also the link was updated.

[thewood1]

Just seemed like a good place to rant. I'll pay rent on your thread.

[thewood1]

You don't happen to have a save before the flight took off? I want to try something.

I'm asking because I just built a single target flight plan in a test scenario and the wingmen generally followed this formation orders. They did become a little incohesive on egress, but pretty much caught up. I made all kinds of changes to waypoints, altitudes, speed, formations, WRAs, etc. I'll keep poking at it because its teaching me a lot of the quirkiness and intricacies of the plan editor.

[thewood1]

Built a mission with a three-target list and flight plan. Its very rough and I haven't adjusted altitudes, launch points, or ROEs to make it run perfectly. But the flight generally stays together until the first attack run when the wingmen start to fall behind. But they generally follow the plan.

Its not as detailed nor as complex as your example, but not seeing the same issue you are at the beginning.

[thewood1]

To add a small level of complexity, I inserted a couple waypoints that bring the ingress altitude down to 12k on the inbound leg. Kept that lower altitude through all target runs. Then have the flight climb to 36k on egress.

This is where the real issues start to come about. Some of the flight immediately climb to 36k after the first target. Some stay, as they should, at 12k. Some then drop back to 12k on the run to the next target, some don't. Its a real cluster around following the plan's altitude. It seems the leader always follows the plan, but its a real lottery on the rest of the flight.

I also noticed they don't follow the specified formation at each waypoint. They always stick to the formation of the first waypoint. You can validate that by going to unit view and watching the formation position diamonds. They never change position from what I can see. So the wingmen never even attempt to align with the proper formation.

My main conclusion is the flight plan editor is still an amazing tool. But...

• Its completely undocumented. I was hoping to change that, but I think its too quirky and inconsistent to make that attempt right now.

• Its inconsistent in how it treats wingmen, formations, and follow-on flights (especially in patrols)

• Shotgun/Winchester settings seem to not work well within the flight plans. Leaders always fire first and bolt for home on shotgun, leaving the rest of the flight on its own.

• There are issues with flights not following the actual flight plan. They sometimes head directly for the next waypoint regardless of the actual plan

The short of it is that the basics work and it works well. Simple plans work consistently and reliably. But anything more complex than a single flight, limited targets, and fewer waypoints and you run the risk of things going off the rails at some point. I still recommend using it on patrols and missions that need to minimize exposure to specific areas. But if you are expecting to build a complex 100 waypoint mission with dozens of targets and multiple flights, you'll be disappointed. Where I would and do use the flight planner is:

• A patrol that needs to avoid a specific defended area on egress and ingress.

• Using altitude adjustments on patrol to maximize fuel usage.

• A continuous coverage patrol (with the Ops Planner)

• A non-standard ingress/egress strike path with extra/adjusted waypoints and a few changing altitudes. Stick to small flights and stay away from rapid altitude changes near targets.

There are a few other use cases but you get the idea. Keep it simple and QA it a few times with a focus on altitudes and wingmen. I have come to look at the Flight Planner probably as was expected by the devs. Its an enhancement to the mission editor. And just like the mission editor, if you try to do too much with it, it'll bite you. And just like the mission editor over the years, it'll get fixed and improved. But for now, if you are getting into super-complex flight planning, make sure you tripe check its execution or consider breaking one complex flight plan into smaller parts and use the Ops Planner for better coordination.

[DWReese]

Excellent review, and I concur with your assessment.

The only thing that I might add is the designed method of attack, as prescribed in the Weapon/Loadout description seems to play a role as well.

For example, a missile that I tested was described as capable of being launched anywhere from 2000-60000 feet.
The description of the loadout stated that it would be launched from 25000 feet.
Using the Flight Planner, and not wanting to be exposed to SAM, I lowered the approach and attack to 2000 feet.
But, right after the plane released its ordnance, and before it reached its next waypoint, the plane climbed, wanting to reach the 25000 feet that the Loadout description had designated in the description.
So, the Loadout description may also have something to do with what altitude the plane flies at, regardless of what the game player inputs.

Like you said, without specific knowledge of what it should be doing, the Flight Planner is a bit "quirky" and, at this point, should be reserved for non-complex missions to avoid issues.

[thewood1]

In my testing, I'm not seeing that issue. But I do make sure there are plenty of waypoints around each side of changing altitudes near weapon release.