Killing advanced anti-ship missiles

[giantsquid]

I played some interesting scenarios (tiger and the dragon and Five Powers) involving chinese Navy as adversaries.

I used some advanced ASM to kill the chinese ships, like indian Brahmos and norwegian NSM. The first is a supersonic missile, running at more that 1500 kntos, while the second is an advanced subsonic with stealth features and terminal maneuvers.

In both cases the probability to hit them of advanced chinese/russian SAM (HQ-10, SA-N-11/17/20 ect) was very high, aroung 60-80%, depending on the cases. Don't you think those design should be more difficult to intercept even by modern systems? Only Brahmos a -20% to hit while the NSM had no modifier at all. I would expect a SAM probability to hit around 20-40% on these difficult targets.

Thanks

[Dimitris]

Hello,

If possible could you please post the message log for the engagements whose results "surprised" you? By checking the logs we can see if the results are sensible, or if there is any factor we have overlooked or if there is a bug present.

(Logs of past games are stored on the \Logs folder)

Thanks!

[giantsquid]

Thanks, I didn't know about the log storage. Here is a part of engagement, involving NSM attacking chinese frigates protected by advanced HQ-10.

This game is such a masterpiece, with an amazing attention to details and performances that I'm curios about the theory and calculations.

I have read about the NSM and it sounds like a very advanced weapon. I remember that Harpoon 4 boardgame had many negative modifiers for such a terget (sea skimming stealthy missiles with terminal maneuvers).

I see target speed modifier - OK
No sea skimming and target signature modifier, just - 1%.
No modifier for terminal maneuver.

See below

thanks a lot

Weapon: HQ-10 [FL-3000N] #1202 is attacking Naval Strike Missile (NSM) #1197 with a base PH of 85%. Target speed modifier: -2%. Target signature modifier: -1%. Final PH: 82%. Die Roll: 61 - HIT

[Primarchx]

In many cases I've had ships that couldn't get a firm radar contact on inbound NSMs until they were within a couple of nms. This made neutralizing them very challenging.

[giantsquid]

Ok, that makes sense. Should be 2-4 nm with a typical surface search radar, according to Harpoon4 data.
Do you remember which scenario was that? Maybe First contact 2016? I will give it a try.

Thanks

Francesco

[Primarchx]

Just my own testing scenarios. But the First Contact 2016 has them, as I recall.

[giantsquid]

OK, tried "First contact 2016". Norwegian NSM attacking russian FFG:

Weapon: SA-N-21c Growler [9M96] #120 is attacking Naval Strike Missile (NSM) #92 with a base PH of 80%. Target speed modifier: 0%. Target signature modifier: -30%. Final PH: 50%. Die Roll: 71 - MISS
This maybe a little optimistic for the russian but makes sense. And, like you said, the missile were detected very late, in the last 5 nm, thanks to their stealth features.

Francesco

[Luidzi]

Large/supersonic ASM are quite un-stealthy, this makes them easier to hit because of increased radar signature. On the other one they are harder to hit because of increased speed.

IR-guided missiles (HQ-10, RIM-116 and others) have minimal signature penalties even against weapons with low IR detection ranges, while radar-guided missiles suffer from very large signature penalties based on weapon stealth. When comparing radar and IR-guided systems with same parameters, IR will achieve higher Pk.

Terminal manoeuvring is not currently modelled.

[Dimitris]

Terminal maneuvers for ASCMs are included as new feature on the upcoming v1.07 update. They are broken down to 3 sub-types: Pop-up (e.g. early Harpoon, least reduction effect), zig-zag (e.g. SS-N-22, greater effect) and random spin (e.g. NSM, greatest reduction effect).

[giantsquid]

Very glad to hear about terminal maneuvers in next upgrade.
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?

Luidzi, thanks for the info about SAM. This explains many things.

Francesco

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?

[Primarchx]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?

The original XCom had alien Blaster Bombs... [:D]

[RobotCriminal]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

ORIGINAL: giantsquid
Are you going to include waypoints on modern AshM, so you can attack form multiple direction or hiding your bearings?

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?

Dangerous waters does, though I'm not sure thats what you were going for.

Do I get a cookie? [:D]

[Dimitris]

I said similar game. DW is a push-button sim.

[Apocal]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?

None, as far as I know.

[RobotCriminal]

ORIGINAL: Apocal

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

This is planned for a future release.

Quiz: Which other similar game has this feature?

None, as far as I know.

Man if this was a trick question I'm crossing him RIGHT THE HELL OFF MY CHRISTMAS CARD LIST. [:@]


[;)]

[mikmykWS]

Your posts are always kind of angry and have no idea why?

You do realize you should probably at some point show interest or value other than dinging the Devs right?

Mike

[JRyan]

Fleet Command?


































































[:D]

[Apocal]

I'm actually really curious if another game had dog-legging missiles as a feature. Maybe some script from Global Command Blue?

[giantsquid]

I think with the new update it could be possible to steer wire guided torpedoes, right?