Fire In the East scenario

[Grymme]

Thanks. I am actually quite proud of the map. It feels like a piece of art.
 
Speaking of the map. I have now uploaded the basic map to my website if someone wants to check it out. Its the whole map painted, but in basic terrain with no units, locations etc. Also it doesnt have the 10 or so black hexes to the west (or the 100 or so smaller changes i have made since then). Nevertheless it represents 2-3 months of hard work painting the ca 72 000 hexes. And people can feel free to just check it out or use it as a basis for their own mod.
 
Here is the page
 
http://web.comhem.se/olvmyr3/FITE.html
 
I will most likely upload some sort of limited scenario later on, like i did with DAK. Something like playing AG North for 1941 or similar.
 
I am still working on the events. Aside from the known events it will also have 50-150 secret events. Its a concept i developed in DAK that i really like. The game will be more fun if everything cannot be calculated and it will force players playing more intuitive (of course if you are a modder you can always open the scenario in the editor and check it out).

[Captain Cruft]

Just stunning.

I haven't played AT for ages, but if you want a play-tester I'm your man. There were very few players willing to take on the original Ostfront and this is about 10 times bigger/more complex so you might struggle to find any other takers.

[Captain Cruft]

Ah ... I just noticed Kronstadt.

Are the sea hexes on both sides "Soviet only"? You can't model CD guns but there should be no way that any German ships can get past it to Leningrad proper. At least that was what my research at the time told me.

Another thing I had decided on but not implemented was a serious re-jigging of the terrain entrenchment values. You need to crank them up as far as they can go (999?) to get anything like the sort of defense bonus that urban and other difficult terrain should provide. Again I have the stuff somewhere ...

[Grymme]

I might take you up on the playtesting thing, when it gets there. I am hoping to attract the FITE people from TOAWIII or the WITP people. Hopefully they might find that you can do the same thing in AT (or nearly) but a turn will take you 20% of the time. (for the record, i know the historical equipment database of TOAWIII is huge, but then there is such a thing as no production and a 2000 unit limit!)
 
As for the Kronstadt hex. They are not Soviet hexes only as of now. I will look into it, as i can see there is atleast a good 5km on each side of the Island proper, but there seem to be some causeways there or something. To somewhat model coastal guns i have made Emplaced artillery +50% into sea water hexes, but that will probably not cut it. But on the other hand i think the fact that the germans did not go into Leningrad with their navy has as much to do with the general situation as with anything else. If you have 1-2 old cruisers and less than 10 destroyers to spare i would not attack into the entire soviet baltic navy, aircraft, mines and artillery myself. I think that will be reflected in the scenario. Also i think it will be quite possible to model mines much better in AT-gold than in AT.
 
But i will see. Right now anything is up for grabs.
 
I agree that bad terrain is a little bit lame in AT.
 

[Captain Cruft]

You're obviously well on the case with Kronstadt ...

How are you finding out what AT Gold will have in it? I have not found much either here or at Vic's site.

FWIW I will post here some of the changes I made for the last version of vanilla Ostfront, which I don't think I ever "published". Play-testing showed that the Germans had a far too easy time of it.

[Grymme]

I hope i am not saying to mucn about AT-gold. But i would hazard a guess and say that if you look into what is happening in Vics other newly released game DC:WTP you will see what can be done in a similar to AT engine.
 
Sure, you are welcome. If you are interested you can always play around with some event code and it could be imported right into the scenario, if you have some ideas.
 
Right now i have my parentinlaws here, so i once again find i have some 30 minutes to spare sometimes to work on it. I am doing some less serious things. Like adding the finnish Lagus armoured battalion, Stug Abts, turkish navy etc.

[Grymme]

One thing i would like any ideas about is how to model finnish political considerations when it comes to advance beyond the "finnish greater are". Historicly the finns stopped well before they were militarily forced to, because of political consideration.
 
The question would be how to model this. the simplest thing would be if it was possible to check powerpoints from a certain people in an area, but that doesnt seem to be possible. So any ideas are welcome.
 
Btw. Captain. You have a PM

[Captain Cruft]

You can basically remove all units of Finnish Peopletype beyond the designated stop line. There is an Exec to do this using area codes, I think. You could probably give a message in warning a couple of turns beforehand by incrementing a variable. My memory is dim, but it's definitely possible.

This event could perhaps be over-ridden by some territorial conditions or something. I like the idea of the Finns roaming free under certain circumstances.

[Grymme]

I agree. The idea is that the germans will be able to use political leverage (if their relationship is good enough) to push the finns forward. In the same way the SU union can influence them to stop. Removing all units sound kind of harsh, but it would most definatly work as a deterent

[Grymme]

Have been working on the scenario on and off the last two weeks when i have had the chance. Not much, but i spend what little free time i have on it.

- a lot of small fixes in events, map, units etc.
- added turkish army including 14 turkish SFTs with itemtypes and location.
- also added the following SFTs

PzKfw I (also represents kleine befehlswagen)
Matilda MkI/II
BA-64 (renamed soviet recon to BA-10/20)
SdKfz234 (renamed german recon to SdKfz 231/222)
T-35
T-37/40 (amphibious light tanks)
PzKfw II (amph)
Light Cruiser (readjusted cruiser numbers a little and renamed it heavy cruiser).

- Have made soviet tank divisions roughly historical so that some contain as much as 500 tanks while others only have 20. Also the number of KV and t34 tanks in each division is now roughly historical.
- Redid the german Airleader Baltic commando.
- Have made german tank divisions roughly historical and doled out PzkpfwI and the amphibious battalion in 18th Pz Regiment. Also added PzJ1b and Sig33 to their historical unit assignements.
- Changed the ratio of 88mm Flak to 20/37mm Flak (there were far to many 88mm)
- Changed a lot of artillery regiments and all german reconnoisance battalions).
- Started to make soviet air units more historical (regiments instead of divisions, have done most of Nortwest Direction so far).
- working on historical reinforcement lists ( i am on turn 25 for axis and 14 for SU).
- Working on the political system.
- Added a couple of security units to Norway and Greece.
- Implemented Polish partisans.

My next big project will be to redo the research system.

Screenshot shows SU 34th Tank Division. The only division in the SU forces blessed (cursed actually) with the Soviet Union T-35 five turreted monstrosity of a tank Each AFV SFT represents 9-12 vehicles.

[Vic]

That map looks defenitely stunning!

[CSO_Talorgan]

ORIGINAL: Grymme

The events i have worked on so far are mainly partisan events

Further down the thread you imply that the partisans are actually represented on the map, rather than just as events. Is their supply the same as that for conventional forces?

[Grymme]

CSO_talorgan: They are generated by random events, like in most other scenarios (so far there is no other way to generate them). But they do not consume any supply, so they can go on forever. And yes they are an SFT type like others.
 
Thanks Vic, as said before i am quite proud of the map.

[CSO_Talorgan]

Thanks for the feedback.

[Grymme]

No problems, i like talking about the scenario. Any ideas about how to make the scenario more interesting is more than welcome. I myself find that partisans sometimes become a tedious part of playing. They appear and get killed, appear and get killed. I have some ideas about events where the soviet player can paradrop heavy equipment etc to the partisans and improve them that way.

Btw. Looking for a good OOB of the Iranian (Persian forces) during the invasion in 1941. If anyone could point me in that direction i would be thankfull.

[Grymme]

No problems, i like talking about the scenario. Any ideas about how to make the scenario more interesting is more than welcome. I myself find that partisans sometimes become a tedious part of playing. They appear and get killed, appear and get killed. I have some ideas about events where the soviet player can paradrop heavy equipment etc to the partisans and improve them that way.

Btw. Looking for a good OOB of the Iranian (Persian forces) during the invasion in 1941. If anyone could point me in that direction i would be thankfull.

[ehzorg]

If the partisans could appear with like, 10 turns worth of supply, that would make things more interesting. Partisans should not be limited by the same supply constraints that regular army is. That and perhaps an AT gun and a horse on (rare) occasion.

[Grymme]

Ezorg. Actually as of now the partisans use no supply at all and can live indefinetly behind enemy lines. I will probably not change that. But your other suggestion lies mor within what i have been thinking of. Either give the partisans some heavy equipment sometimes or somehow let the SU airlift in heavy equipment, or both. I think that would be interesting.

Btw. The scenario seem to be AI capable. I let the computer running yesterday with the AI playing the german side. I dont know how many hours it took. But today when i got home from work and opened up the computer it was ready for me to play. The Axis had destroyed something like 1890 infantry during my first turn for 255 own losses (not great but not horrible either). I am running their second round now.

Other small things i am working on (and looking for).
- Have created the Persian army and the rules regarding SU invasion of Persia (affects LL south). But still looking for a correct Persian OOB.
- Also looking for figures on the number of armored cars on each side at the start of the invasion.
- Also looking for the number of Soviet Armored Train Battalions, their composition and placement and if there were any Armored Train Regiments. (i have found some at Niehorster but looking for a complete list).
- Also looking for figures for the Luftwaffe AA mission around Ploeste. Cannot seem to find any information on which Flak units were stationed there.

- Created an event simulating the Vladimerescu and other Romanian Rifle Division in SU OOB.
- Changed all GE aufk. Battalions and renamed them Aufk/Krads. Also reduced number of Armored cars in them but added more support to reflect their true OOB.
- Added historical numbers of german transport aircraft in correct places (these were largely missing).
- Tested aircraft attacks on ships and found them to powerfull. Fighters were killing destroyers, so will have to adjust them.
- Programmed Lend Lease through Vladivostok (it wasnt really Lend Lease but am calling it that because i dont remember the correct term for allied helt to SU).
- Fixed the Russo-Turkish relations event so that the equation for chances of Turkey joining the war is correct.
- Wrote the briefing part for Lend Lease, se below.
- added the M3/M5 Halftrack as an LL SFT
- Wrote down the Original Ostfront research values so that i can redo the research system without loosing any information (it takes up 40+ events in the editor.)
- Changed the Matilda MkI/II to name Mk I/II/III Tank (it also gets to represent the Valentines)

Rules for Lend Lease

[font="times new roman"]Arctic Lend Lease[/font]

[font="times new roman"]Each round there is a small chance (4%) of a Lend Lease Convoy appearing in the north with reinforcements of aircraft, trucksm halftracks and tanks. They will appear in Murmansk. Should Murmansk be axis controlled they will instead appear in Archangelsk[/font]

[font="times new roman"]The following convoy modifiers in apply (in percent).[/font]
[font="times new roman"]+1 From 1942 and onward. [/font]
[font="Times New Roman"]+1 If both Petsamo and Kirkenes are controlled by the Soviet Union.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]-1 If Murmansk is axiscontrolled (this also causes the lend lease to be rerouted to Archangelsk)[/font]
[font="times new roman"]-1 If the axis manages to keep 120 powerpoints in the Barents Sea.[/font]

[font="times new roman"]If Soviet VPs go to low (less than 450/120) the convoys become larger to reflect increased allied support.[/font]

[font="times new roman"]Lend Lease through Siberia[/font]

[font="times new roman"]Each round there is a small chance (2%) of a Lend Lease Convoy appearing in the Urals with reinforcements of aircraft, trucks, halftracks and tanks. They will appear in the Urals. [/font]

[font="times new roman"]The following convoy modifiers in apply (in percent).[/font]
[font="times new roman"]+1 From 1942 and onward. [/font]

[font="times new roman"]If Soviet VPs go to low (less than 450/120) the convoys become larger to reflect increased allied support.[/font]

[font="times new roman"]Lend Lease through the middle east[/font]

[font="times new roman"]Each round there is a small chance (3%) of a Lend Lease Convoy appearing in the south with reinforcements of aircraft, trucks, halftracks and tanks. They will appear in Yerevan. Should Yerevan be axis controlled they will instead appear in Baku. [/font]

[font="times new roman"]The following convoy modifiers in apply (in percent).[/font]
[font="times new roman"]+2 If both Persian cities are soviet occupied.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]+1 From 1942 and onward. [/font]
[font="times new roman"]-1 If Yerevan is axis controlled (this also causes the lend lease to be rerouted to Baku).[/font]
[font="times new roman"]-1 If Erzurum (turkish city) is axis controlled.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]-2 if Soviet forces in Transcaucasus (only soviet proper) is less than 2 000 powerpoints).[/font]

[Grymme]

I am currently playing a game of the whole map against a german AI. The german AI is currently on round 3. The first two rounds went ok. I left it for the night and work and came home and the turn was finished. Will see if it continues that way. Anyway i was thinking to start a small AAR about how the AI handles things (this might become short if the AI cant handle the turns).

Round I
Opened first screen. Soviet infantry losses ca 1 890. For axis losses around 250. Minor losses in armour, transports, air etc.
Soviet forces in Murmansk area, Kandalaksha area and N Karelia defeated. In Karelian Istmus an Rifle Division a NKVD Regiment and a Pioneer Regiment is cut of southwest of Viipuri. Attacks against Hangö is beaten back. Partisans appear on Dagö.

Baltic front is broken wide open around Lithouania. Also several Baltic partisans appear to throw out the Soviet Union.

Around Brest-Litovsk the units from the 2nd Panzergruppe has crossed the river and are striking north atempting to encircle the units in the Bialystok area and link up with units from the 3rd Panzergruppe striking from the north.

The hungarians suffer heavy losses as they enter the war totally unprepared.

In the far south the Romanians beat back the unprepared SU forces from the South and Southwest fronts and cross the river Bug in force.

Round II
Opened first screen. Soviet infantry losses ca 800. Axis losses around 250. Minor losses in armour, transports etc.

In the Murmansk area in the far north the XIX Gebirgsjäger Korps have forces soviet union forces from the 14th Army back to the River Litsa. A disastrous soviet counterattack by the 137th, 145th and 147th Air Regiments end in the loss of ca 80 aircraft (70% of the total force)

In the Kandalaksa/Salla area 122nd and 124th Rifle Divisions are encircled by Wehrmacht, SS and Finnish troops.

In the N Karelian area the finnish Pansaaribattalion suffer a setback loosing 10 tanks for no gain whilst trying to attack through the woods.

In the Karelian Istmus the Finnish units approach the gates of Viipuri. Soviet forces retreat to the old border fortifications to find better positions. Large soviet reinforcements appear in Vologda (North), Penza (Middle) and Engelsk (South).

In the AG Nord area there is no organized resistance except around Kaunas. German forces advance and mop up stragglers. More Baltic partisans appear and Soviet garrison in Dagö is besieged in Kardia by strong partisan forces.

Brest Litovsk is encircled, but not taken. Units from the 8th, 11th and 13th Mechanized Corps in the Bialystok area move towards the german northern pincer.

In the South Lvov is evacuated.

In the far South the Romanians have broken through. Units from the 18th Mechanized Corps man the crossings across River Dniestr. The 3rd Airborne Corps entrench themselves in the Odessa Fortified region.
----


So i will see what happens. If everything goes ok and i suddenly i have a lot of time on my hands this semi-AAR might continue. Otherwise not.

Changes to version 107
- JU-88A (N) is a torpedo bomber that can be built (new SFT)
- DB-3T (N) is a torpedo bomber that cannot be built (new SFT)
- IL-4T (N) is a torpedo bomber that can be built (new SFT)
- Changed the antishipping values of all other aircraft to 20 %.
- Placed VVS forces (SU naval air) in the Baltic.
- Changed the Air Baltic Commando and gave them Torpedo Bombers
- Finnished placing the Persian Army, added Persians as people etc.
- Fixed some minor bugs discovered by the playtest.
- Changed trains and gave the SU 34 more of them.
- Went through almost all SU tank divisions and lowered the experience of T-34 and KV-1s SFTs in the units that contained these from 40/20 to 10.
- Finished the Lend Lease Events.

[Arditi]

Truly impressive map!  Perhaps you can make some hypothetical games as well with this map?  Remember the old monster "Invasion America" game from SPI?  There was also a sister game for the US invasion of the Soviet Union.  Name escapes me at the moment.
  Best, Arditi[:)]