Tournament B - Into the Breach - 6/16/82 - DAR

[vonkrieg]

Currently, there are no limitations on a helo's loiter time. However, in this fight they are relatively close to the front lines which means they would have massive loiter time. Looking at it as it stands in the scenario, I will probably have to put some SA-9s on the Syrian side to make the Cobras really nervous and prevent the "high" mode recon by helo in an active combat zone. Its just asking to get shot down. But my current version doesn't give the Syrians anything more than close in air defense with SA-7s and ZSU-23-4s.

Many things have to be controlled by the scenario designer and with all this new equipment we have to find a good balance. Which is the reason I created this scenario to give everyone the new systems and to see just what to expect on the ME battlefield. I am already seeing some things that will probably get revised in the current iteration of this scenario, but this would not be readily apparent without Crossroads and Warhorse duking it out in such an open forum.

Luv'n it.

Jim

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: vonkrieg
Currently, there are no limitations on a helo's loiter time. However, in this fight they are relatively close to the front lines which means they would have massive loiter time. Looking at it as it stands in the scenario, I will probably have to put some SA-9s on the Syrian side to make the Cobras really nervous and prevent the "high" mode recon by helo in an active combat zone. Its just asking to get shot down. But my current version doesn't give the Syrians anything more than close in air defense with SA-7s and ZSU-23-4s.

Many things have to be controlled by the scenario designer and with all this new equipment we have to find a good balance. Which is the reason I created this scenario to give everyone the new systems and to see just what to expect on the ME battlefield. I am already seeing some things that will probably get revised in the current iteration of this scenario, but this would not be readily apparent without Crossroads and Warhorse duking it out in such an open forum.

Luv'n it.

Jim

Absolutely! In showcase here is not only all the modern gear that goes into a 1980s battle field, but also the aspects of the scenario design.

What I did not write to the previous turn report that was that actually the Cobra flight went to High Air Level for a quick look to locate the Syrian SPA. I think they are in Kuneitra, and if I indeed spot them there, and if the MANPADs are situated in a manner I can engage them just outside the MANPAD range, that is what I will do.

So, from scenario designer's point of view how to remove the (relative) impunity of Israeli Cobra flights?

[*] Add some Syrian SA-9s to the scenario. After that addition, it is only NOE flying for the Cobras for should they show up they'd be blasted out of the skies. A viable option for sure.
[*] Add more MANPAD and other AA assets to the Syrian side, so there'd be even more no-fly zones to Israeli helos. They've got a range of 12, so it is not that they are worthless at all. I have been very careful tip-toeing outside their range, for otherwise my two helo assets be gone.
[*] Possibly, add like 10 hexes to the east of the map edge, so Syrian artillery has more room to deploy inside the Syrian AA umbrella. To engage them deeper in Syrian territory would be a big risk for Israelis, and likely the helos would require ground support to blast them a safe zone to enter Syrian air space.
[*] Finally, make a wish list to game developers (ha!) that ATGM and MANPAD teams would be Sneaker units, such as is the case with low cal AT Guns already with MCS titles. You don't necessarily see them even if they fire so they'd need to be wiped out by friendly assets engaging the suspicious hexes directly.

Plenty of options! How to proceed as a Scenario Designer? Set up a test game or three [8D] All the great scenarios are likely the result of many test games under the belt, and Scenario Designer working closely with the testers.

Something we are doing out here in the open [:)]

Anyways, typing this in from the work (hush...), really looking forward to opening Warhorse's turn this evening and to see how it will play out!

[Crossroads]

Turn #7

Rawia Vital Ground

The Israelis are still operating under minimal forces here, with the promised relief column still some time off from arrival. Here, I will have to do with the few units that can react to Syrian airborne threat, so I am content to moving my recon elements around a bit, and having the two infantry platoons ordered to stay off from harms ways. Especially, as the Syrian artillery remains a threat.



Front Sector

Speaking of them, the Syrian SPAs indeed are in Kuneitra. Warhorse's done what he can in putting a proper air defence around them, but with the map edge right at his back, there's the opportunity for my Cobra flights to hit at them dancing around just outside the MANPAD range. I have both of my Cobra flights engaging the spotted SPAs.

Obviously, this is a bit of an issue now as discussed, so we're to do a little pow-wow with vonkrieg as how to proceed with this play test.



Southern Sector

The Syrian helos dashed just outside the LOS of the Israeli held objective, and since they remained just outside the LOS of my HGM unit there, I decide to withdraw (in double time) towards the pillboxes. With Syrian infantry approaching from multiple directions, it just does not look like a safe place outside of them...



Northern Sector

Syrian battle group arrives in force come this turn. I snipe at them with my Milan teams, but as they close in my units in pillboxes begin to feel really isolated... Time to call in the infantry platoon from their recon mission at the edge of orchards here too!



End of Turn Status

The point deficit just swing to -251, but with my 50 objective about to chance hands next turn, and some 300 VPs available in the Northern Sector among my supply road, the proverbial lady certainly has not sang her last yet!

Anyway, time for an interim status report to vonkrieg next!

[Hexagon]

Great AAR, keep it moving at least 1 week more [:D]

A little question, in your last pics look like mech infantry NATO symbols appear in the left top corner in the counter... is a glich/bug or a problem with screenshot???

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Great AAR, keep it moving at least 1 week more [:D]

A little question, in your last pics look like mech infantry NATO symbols appear in the left top corner in the counter... is a glich/bug or a problem with screenshot???

With Alternate Counters, we came with a setup there's 12 standard unit types that have their own color bar at the lower edge of the counter. The color bars would follow the original NATO icon counter colors, so pink for armor, green for arty, yellow for infantry, and so fort.

Then, it was done in a way certain special units could have added information, so in addition to infantry yellow color bar, paras and armd infantry for instance would have the NATO icon repeated in the counter too. It makes perhaps less sense when playing with NATO icons any way, like I do.

With 2D unit icons, it makes more sense, like see below.

[Crossroads]

Turn #8

After the little pow-wow it was decided to continue the test game. The main message was that the purpose of the Syrian battle group is to cut the Israeli Main Supply Road of the area, and for the Israelis to prevent that from happening. So for instance the Objectives might be reconsidered for their value, should it be costly for the Syrians to get there... I can't assume anything, so I will need to ensure the MSR remains open!

Rawia Vital Ground

Not much here... The Syrians spread out to establish a defensive perimeter, while I spread out to establish a defensive perimeter outside their defensive perimeter:



Southern Sector

Syrians gather their strength, Israelis set up outposts... Calm before the storm, while nothing to report as such.

Northern Sector

While tip-toeing further away from the Syrian MANPADS, I went one hex too far last turn, and lost the visual on Syrian SPA. Since the MANPAD teams have spread out a bit, I can't anymore engage the city without flying into their range. So I decide to call it the day there, and send my Cobra flights to North to help in containing the Syrian breakthrough there.



Speaking of which, the T-72s have now closed in at the Israeli pillbox there, and wipe out my Milan ATGM team. I send an infantry platoon in to replace them and to buy time, while my Cobras break in. Just at the edge of their range, I knock out the Syrian AA tanks, to ensure the sky remains free for my tank hunters.



My Abel company from the Tank battalion is still some time from arriving into the scene, so I am a bit thin there at the moment. Plenty of space for the Syrian tanks to advance, so I again move my helos to observe the enemy movement in the sector.

And that's it! Over to Warhorse for Turn 9!

[Crossroads]

Turn #9

Rawia Vital Ground

At Rawia, the staring contest continues. I have turned the Hex Info Box off, to have more map estate on my screen, so now (just as with previous titles), the selected unit shows in a floating Infobox counter. A little change for CS:ME is the background color is changed to black, from shadow mesh. Makes for easier reading at least to my weary eyes.



Northern Sector

Warhorse is moving more armored forces into area, in what otherwise would be out of LOS behind the ridge. However my helos are an ever continuous presence now, so nothing moves with out me seeing it.

I switched to Alt Counters a couple of turns ago, to get the most information from the battle field. It now pays off, as I spot a white transport counter in a stack of units. They were hiding in the middle of the stack, but were spotted, and soon dealt with. There's a limit of four counters on display at most, to avoid overlapping in map, so if you spot a suspicious stack of four, you better turn the Hex Info Box on (hit 'U' for units), to observe the full content of the hex.



My other Cobra hit a T-72 platoon, with less effect this time, while the first tanks of my Merkava Tank Coy enter the scene. Firing at their range limits. Merkava has a range of four clicks, while T-72 of three clicks, so I still try to stay out of harms way, and to contain the Syrian advance while wearing them down for my eventual relief column and the counter attack.

Southern Sector

Warhorse's flying a lot of infantry to my rear sector, as evident here. I am pretty much helpless against those intrusions. I move my HMG team to the area in a hope they can cause at least some damage to Syrian helos flying at Nap Of Earth I think, for most of the time I don't see them at all.



And that's it! Over to Warhorse for turn #10!

[Crossroads]

Turn #10

Northern Sector

Time to look at the big picture. We are both playing this scenario blind, ie we did not look at other sides forces nor positions. So while the Syrians paid the price for those early probing pushes, they have now found one of the weak spots in Israeli defence lines.

Syrian tanks arrive in force. I had a ATGM team together with an Infantry platoon digging in at North of Bab Alhawal ruins, but they were spotted and wiped out. The lone pillbox at the north is now completely surrounded, and depleted by the constant shelling from zero range by the Syrian T-72s. Their lack of infantry means they can't assault the position, but it is only a matter of time before the last defenders are buried in the ruins...

Meanwhile, as the plan goes some of my Merkavas engage the opposing T-72s from distance, while some move to Northwest to establish a defensive perimeter there (the yellow line). This far, but no further!

One of the Cobra flights stays in the area to observe the Syrian movements, while the other flew back to HQs for resupply of ATGMs.



Southern Sector

Syrian helos continue to buzz over my troops, carrying more infantry, apparently heading to Rawia Vital Ground as a relief force. Nothing I can do. Come next turn my HMG platoon has their APs full, so hopefully they can Op Fire on some of the low flying Syrian transports!

Rawia Vital Ground

Reports are in for the first Israeli Relief Group elements entering the area. Encouraged by the news, my Infantry Coy closes in. Meanwhile, I push my APCs to south, taking Op Fire from Syrians, but no casualties. Also, my Jeep/MG teams drive towards south. Hopefully their limited AA capabilities still can cause some concern for the Syrian relief troops zooming in, in their Mi-8 transports.

Looking at the screenshot below, it is obvious why I named the area as Vital Ground. Look at the highway my Relief Column must pass on their way to front sector. Ambush Alley! it currently could be named...



This time the hex highlight is toggled to portray the selected unit's movement range. Better be careful not to get stuck next to an angry Syrian commando platoon!

And that's it. Over to Warhorse for Turn #11!

[Crossroads]

Turn #11

Rawia Vital Ground

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Southern Sector

Syrian helos continue to buzz over my troops, carrying more infantry, apparently heading to Rawia Vital Ground as a relief force. Nothing I can do. Come next turn my HMG platoon has their APs full, so hopefully they can Op Fire on some of the low flying Syrian transports!

Oh wow, they were not only approaching Rawia, they were already there! My recon units moved into the area during the previous turn, but they spot only from the beginning of this turn to reveal the Israeli Main Supply Road is at least for now decisively cut, as another Coy of Syrian Commandos has landed in the area!

Oh wow... Talk about rapid movement!



The forward elements of my Relief Column have to fight their way through the area, now.

Southern Sector

My forward units continue to report heavy helicopter activity in Kuneitra, as the Syrian Mi-8 transports buzz in and out of the city carrying more Syrian forces over my front lines. With the MANPAD teams securing the city from all approaches, my Cobra flights are prevented from entering the area. They would have been the only asset I can use to hit the area, so I am effectively cut out from there.



A few hexes Southwest from this pic, the Objective that fell last turn to Syrians was reinforced with HMG teams.

I withdraw my infantry platoons from the vicinity, to wait on that eventual counter attack to come towards the later turns of the scenario. If my relief column can enter the area, that is!

Northern Sector

Syrians have effectively secured the area from Israeli ground troops, with the remaining units in the isolated pillbox sealed in and unable to escape. The Syrian tanks have withdrawn behind orchards and rocky spots, and are out of LOS of my Tank Coy securing the area.

My other Cobra flight that returned to their HQs is now supplied, and can take off come next turn. Meanwhile, my out-of-ammo Cobra flight remains in the area to report on any Syrian movement. Without it present, I would have lost the contact on the Syrian armored force north in the map.

I have three air strikes on my arsenal, this seemed like a good time to call them all in at the same time, hopefully for some serious shock-and-awe come next turn.



And that's it for this turn. Over to Warhorse for turn #12!

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Turn #10

[--- snip ---]

Rawia Vital Ground

Reports are in for the first Israeli Relief Group elements entering the area. Encouraged by the news, my Infantry Coy closes in. Meanwhile, I push my APCs to south, taking Op Fire from Syrians, but no casualties. Also, my Jeep/MG teams drive towards south. Hopefully their limited AA capabilities still can cause some concern for the Syrian relief troops zooming in, in their Mi-8 transports.

Looking at the screenshot below, it is obvious why I named the area as Vital Ground. Look at the highway my Relief Column must pass on their way to front sector. Ambush Alley! it currently could be named...



This time the hex highlight is toggled to portray the selected unit's movement range. Better be careful not to get stuck next to an angry Syrian commando platoon!

And that's it. Over to Warhorse for Turn #11!

Can you believe this [X(] I had two APC platoons zooming past the orchards where two Syrian Commando platoons and one helo flight had just landed!

Edit: in fact, I took some incoming Op Fire, I assumed it was from the IP hex next to the orchards. Ha. Way cool.

[Crossroads]

Turn #12

Warhorse and I discussed we probably made a mistake playing this tournament scenario blind, ie. by not approaching the game as one would approach a game of chess: all counters in the open, with the lay of land to be studied. As vonkrieg's briefing to us went, he expects to see a strong Syrian push through the Israeli defenses, followed up by an Israeli counter attack. With us playing this blind, the Syrians are now paying the price for having had to resort to probing attacks first, to figure out the Israeli defences.

Regardless, we're having a ton of fun, so here goes again!

Rawia Vital Ground

While I was totally taken by surprise by seeing the Syrian reinforcements in the area, they paid the price with losing some ten Mi-8s the previous and this turn to my AA capable units before escaping their range of fire.

Turn #12 sees me switching to 2D Unit Icons for a change, and the Israeli troops entering the Rawia from North and West.



It gets close and personal. My M3 Mortar team engages the Syrian 6SP platoon at the Objective location disrupting them and causing a 1SP loss, after which my 6SP Arm'd Infantry platoon assaults their positions. Twice.



To no avail. The road remains closed. My reinforcement column continues to be delayed from the Southern sector.

Southern Sector

Speaking of which, I have two 2SP recon teams entering to area, with orders to take over Pillboxes, freeing the 6SP infantry platoons to prepare for the attack here. The attack won't come for a good few turns though, before Rawia Vital Ground is secured into friendly hands again.



Northern Sector

The Syrian T-72s closed the distance, and scored three Merkavas this turn. Wreck markers mark now burning Isreali oil too. I switch my Cobra flights this turn, with the resupplied flight entering the area, but without APs to fire, while the out-of-ammo flight flew to their HQs for a resupply. So while I have eyes on the ground, this continues very much as a cat-and-mouse action between the forces. Meanwhile, my teams in the Pillbox are reporting they are out of ammo and hands to put up any resistance anymore, and expect to be captured by the next turn.

Back to NATO icons again:



And that's it! Over to Warhorse for turn #13.

[vonkrieg]

What hit the Mi-8s? MANPAD, MG, Jeep w/MG, combo? That is a pretty brutal loss for the Syrians considering you already downed the Mi-8 Escort.

I'm very curious.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: vonkrieg

What hit the Mi-8s? MANPAD, MG, Jeep w/MG, combo? That is a pretty brutal loss for the Syrians considering you already downed the Mi-8 Escort.

I'm very curious.

I got one full flight while landed at Rawia, then there was a flight at Rawia at Nap Of Earth I engaged with my Jeep/MG troop got that too.

Possibly, or, likely: my HMG then in the Southern sector Op Firing got one or two too, so that would make the ten downed helos as a total.

[Crossroads]

Turn #13

Rawia Vital Ground

Here's the Rawia situation at the end of the turn. Syrian special forces prove to be very difficult to dislodge from their positions. I keep assaulting their positions with a purpose of forcing a retreat rather than kills or capturing the lot, but the disrupted platoon holding the Objective refuses to blink. I was able to throw back the other Syrian platoon blocking the road to the East, so finally was able to swing my 2nd Merkava Coy towards the front lines. I could have used more infantry in the Southern sector, but the Arm'd Engineers stay to assist the Arm'd Infantry platoons in securing the area. My recon elements keep a close eye to any movement from the South. Syrian helos have been active again. so who knows what the next turn brings.



Northern Sector

The isolated Isreali Pillbox continues to fight, so I am finally moving some relief forces to their way. It is probably already too late, they are down to their last strengths. The Syrian armored columns seeks to stay cover, while moving towards my rear area. Possibly planning to swing towards the Rawia sector. My both Cobra flights are back in action, so I just move my 1st Merkava Coy around a bit to more commanding positions.

While I mostly play with 2D Zoom-In view, once and a while it is good to swing back to 2D Normal view for a more general overview of the sector:



Southern Sector

Syrian air activity remains high, my HMG section Op Fires at them twice again, but I am seeing they've sent ground forces towards the area to secure a free flight zone there. My rifle platoons remain off the Syrian eyes, waiting for the eventual arrival of elements of the relief column.



And that's it for turn 13. Over to you Warhorse!

[budd]

can we get a zoomed out shot with VP's on .

[Crossroads]

Turn #14

ORIGINAL: **budd**
can we get a zoomed out shot with VP's on .

Sure thing! Before action, below.

Rawia Vital Ground

This time my Arm'd Infantry together with their IFVs in close support push the Syrian commandos out of the Rawia village and the crossroads Objective. Yet, the Syrian special forces refuse to give up, and the artillery they keep calling on my units is quite a nuisance. I had five units disrupted in the beginning of turn, three of them recovered in time for my turn.

Northern Sector

Warhorse brings in a BPM-1 platoon I had missed, and armed with Saggers I lose two Merkavas to their missiles. Another Sagger team enters the area on foot. I need to start bringing my own infantry in. At the same time, Syrian columns on foot are seen marching towards the area. Their earlier loss of APC capacity is hindering them, hopefully enough for my relief column to perhaps entering here, instead of the Southern Sector.

Southern Sector

Situation in the South is pretty grim as well. I fight a rearguard action, giving in one hex at a time. I am still quite weakly manned in this sector, not much else I can do. The big decision soo is whether to reinforce the Northern or Southern sector. I need to choose, can't have both...

Overview

Here, then, is the whole map, put together from two screenshots. Red circles mark Objectives held by Syrians, yellow those still in friendly hands.



Over to Warhorse!

[vonkrieg]

or, likely: my HMG then in the Southern sector Op Firing got one or two too, so that would make the ten downed helos as a total.

Thanks... I've learned to land at an assembly area and march onto the VP hex like a standard airborne drop. Those MGs are brutal on the helos. I'm thinking popping high is probably the better tactic (as long as SAMs aren't too prevalent) as you move quicker and the MANPAD #s are way less than MGs and Small Arms that will engage you at NOE.

Probably going to have to consider adding some more birds to the Syrian side if the #'s downed are that high.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: vonkrieg

or, likely: my HMG then in the Southern sector Op Firing got one or two too, so that would make the ten downed helos as a total.

Thanks... I've learned to land at an assembly area and march onto the VP hex like a standard airborne drop. Those MGs are brutal on the helos. I'm thinking popping high is probably the better tactic (as long as SAMs aren't too prevalent) as you move quicker and the MANPAD #s are way less than MGs and Small Arms that will engage you at NOE.

Probably going to have to consider adding some more birds to the Syrian side if the #'s downed are that high.

If you look at the screenshot above, and look at how I've positioned the Jeep/Mg units around Rawia, I think you saw just how bad the Syrian Helos got caught in the crossfire.

Again it seems I happened to move them into these positions just at the same time Syrians had committed to landing. That was two flights caught during the one turn, one having landed and one at nap of earth. If I would have been there one turn later, they would have been all gone.

This is quite a cat-and-mouse game, hunter becoming hunted. Really enjoying this!

[Crossroads]

Turn #15

Just for some change in this DAR, I enabled the white NATO icons MOD that ships with the game. So here goes:

Rawia Vital Ground

The battle to clear the Israeli main supply road rages on. Syrian special forces, isolated in the area, are finally being pushed aside. My Main Relief Column now enters the area, and the leading Merkava Coy engages the Syrians too. The end of the turn leaves my armored units a bit too close to Syrians for my liking (they've got a hard range of 3 hexes), but I have been delayed enough already. Syrian artillery continues to be a major pain, so time to call some covering smoke in. Should have put more of it to cover my forces, but this is it for now.



Northern Sector

This sector continues to be an area for total Isreali air superiority. Just to make sure there's no hidden MANPAD teams around, I switch to Alt Counters. No, no blue color anywhere! Syrian Infantry Coy tries to sneak in in their APCs, but again the Cobra flight leaves no such effort unpunished. Four loaded APCs are now burning...

Meanwhile, the brown ATG color is present, and the Syrian ATGM team knocks out one of my Merkavas. I return the compliments, causing them to retreat behind the ridge, after which I retreat my tanks behind orchards. My brave forward troops were finally annihilated, and the pillbox now serves as a formidable Syrian outpost, with perfect LOS to any clear area around.



Southern Sector

The Syrians managed to push my HMG team a couple of hexes back, losing their APs on retreat, and another Syrian Mi-8 transport flight zooms over my men. I continue to step back one hex a time, waiting for reinforcements. The Syrians have a really strong ATGM and MANPAD presence in the area, so should I bring a few Merkavas here for close support, my foot infantry better clear the area first.



That's turn 15 in the bag. Over to Warhorse!

[Crossroads]

Turn #16

Syrian Armored Force North of Rawia

This has been a close contest, I keep thinking I have my units entering crucial areas just one step ahead of the Syrians. Unluckily for them, this is true for the Northern map edge as well. Now that the Syrian Armored Taskforce was ready to move on, I had just had two APCs carrying TOW teams entering the village there. as well as soft skinned TOW equipped tank busters as well. As the spotting rules go, I saw them, they did not live to see me.

With the other Cobra flight engaging too, here's the before and after of the northern edge. I am only now showing my Northeastern base in detail. That's where my Helo Base resides, with their HQ that is required for TOW supply.





There's the one Syrian tank coy remaining, my Merkava troop continues to hide from them.

Rawia Vital Ground

For two turns the Syrians have been retreating out of LOS towards west. I don't mind, the supply road remains open and if I don't see them they don't see me to plot artillery at me! Those Syrians in the open are getting a raw deal here, with my mortar / AA equipped APCs having a target practice at them...



Northern Sector

Nothing to report. Syrian TOW teams and Israeli tanks continue to play their cat and mouse game, both sides wishing not to lift their heads from the ground. Stalemate for now.

Southern Sector

The Syrian presence grows, but come this turn my front sector troops released. I had placed 2SP recon teams at key pillboxes, and had APCs waiting, so I am now building strength here too. I have been worried the Syrians might push to the north, while they must worry if they do that I might go for the Objective here. A stalemate of a kind here too. This turn saw troop movement, and my HMG team destroyed.

Syrian artillery is a nuisance so I spread my troops around. This turn I finally had one 155mm SPA battery entering the map, so come next turn I can return the compliments.

I don't have any other AA assets in the area at the moment, so South continues to be the Syrian air superiority area, and North an Israeli one.



And that's turn #16 in the bag!