DC3 Barbarossa

[micheljq]

There are many AARs in WitE forum, it is played and playable. I own both Decisive campaigns games and also WitE.

I agree DC system is simple, intuitive, cards are fine. There is a learning curve at first but it's normal. I would like a whole russian campaign with the DC system.

Michel.

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: keithrose

It would be a shame if a good game was spoilt by an assumption that "bigger is better". Gary Grigsby made a similar error in thinking a more complex game would by definition be "better" - its not, its just more (too?) complex -in a spreadsheet management type of way - I doubt anyone but accountants & people alone in a sealed room ever actually play WiTE for more than a few turns.

The great thing about DC1 & DC2 for me was the ability to manipulate sub division units to gain advantage - using armour, infantry, air & artillery in a combined op dependent on terrain/weather/opposition etc - the sub units allowed this subtlety. I fear a big east front division slugging match will be just as dull as all the other big east front division slugging match games (both PC & board) that exist out there.
Why not use the existing system to do North African scenarios or some other interesting theatre at the existing scale rather than just trying to create something that will be just another monster game - as unplayed as it is unplayable.

I can assure you maybe a bit here since I have just played a PBEM test match with Cameron. And the level of "monsterness size" of DC3 feels slightly below the level of DC2 to me.

The new focus on the "multi-part" armies works very well and gives, at least me, the same enjoyment as I used to have with handling the multi-part divisions. And it did not feel like a slugging match, but yes: it is a different scale and type of game than DC1/DC2. Some things are abstracted like the air war and artillery support. But I think its a nice and different experience that still allows you to make the different branches cooperate, just on a different level.

Since I am a rather small outfit and having to support lots of different games and create a completely new engine (shadow empire) as well one of my goals for DC3 is now to have a much simplified editor released by the time of DC3 to allow easier development by scenario designers or third-parties.

Best wishes,
Vic

[keithrose]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Vic. I enjoyed (& am enjoying still) the first two games so much I'd hate to see them disappear - they are a breath of fresh air in what was becoming a very samey environment - good games that kept pretty close to the history whilst still being fun to play - a difficult balancing act.

Glad to hear about the scenario editor - I'm sure there'd be a lot of people keen to use the engine to develop their own scenarios & campaigns - would give a great deal of longevity to the game.

Do you foresee any time in the future returning to the DC1/DC2 scale to do any other theatres (current commitments permitting)?

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: keithrose

Thanks for taking the time to reply Vic. I enjoyed (& am enjoying still) the first two games so much I'd hate to see them disappear - they are a breath of fresh air in what was becoming a very samey environment - good games that kept pretty close to the history whilst still being fun to play - a difficult balancing act.

Glad to hear about the scenario editor - I'm sure there'd be a lot of people keen to use the engine to develop their own scenarios & campaigns - would give a great deal of longevity to the game.

Do you foresee any time in the future returning to the DC1/DC2 scale to do any other theatres (current commitments permitting)?

NP. Always like to chat and listen to customers.
But I dont promise things lightly. I will make up the balance after I finish my current commitments: DC3 and Shadow Empire. I have to see how they will be liked before deciding on new projects.

No lack of ideas though. For example a late ww2 game '44 - '45 is still on my must-do-before-i-die-to-do list. But that would be a monster game in regimental scale. Afrika is also tempting and would be relatively light weight to play (in unit count), but will have to be done maybe at bat level to have the sense of manoeuvre.

best wishes,
Vic

[scout1]

Africa would be a fine choice ..... Limited unit count, freedom of mobility, logistics driven ........

[gdrover]

Vic-
Really looking forward to this one. I really enjoy Barbarossa games, and like others here I would appreciate a game that finds the sweet spot between monster and too simple.
I have all of your other games and have played them often.
Two requests:
1) could you make the counters a bit chunkier (thicker), so that they have more dimension.
This would give them a little nicer of a look and feel.
2) check out the SSG operational games. They have a nifty UI for tactical battles: when the player clicks on the target unit, a screen pops up that shows all of the possible units that can attack, support, etc. as the player chooses them, the odds update. Very useful way to visualize and change the attacks.
Thanks!
Glenn

[zakblood]

-edited by Vic-

sorry zakblood. but we don't want other players (not invited by Cameron) having false hope of being able to join the beta.

[lancer]

Hi,

We've already got a full team for the first beta test but there will be another, final beta, later for anyone who may be interested.

Probably jumping the gun applying for that now although you could pm me an expression of interest at any point.

Cheers,
Cameron

[WilliePete]

Vic, can you give us a hint of when we can expect DC3? I'm itching to play something new and Eastern Front focused. Thanks!

[lancer]

Hi WilliePete,

Later this year is looking good.

Cheers,
Cameron

[TigerTC]

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi WilliePete,

Later this year is looking good.

Cheers,
Cameron

good to hear![&o]

[ChuckBerger]

Dear Vic & Cameron,

I've finally started playing DC1 and DC2, and am really looking forward to DC3. Great games with some really innovative concepts.

Could I enter a gentle plea for some serious attention to the manual, and to the interface?

On interface, I don't have huge expectations as to the graphics in a wargame, and in fact I generally hate the 3D modeled graphics that seem to be all the rage in games like EU/HOI, Panzer General, etc. I far prefer clean, minimalist 2D graphics. Unity of Command is in my view the best ever wargame in terms of its aesthetic style and clean presentation of information.

The DC1 and DC2 interface aren't bad, but not especially good either. Graphic presentation of information on the counters in particular is a dog's breakfast. Different sized, shaped indicators all over the counter, with really ugly repeated icons on the largest counter size. I find it all really non-intuitive.

For instance, I now know, after some searching, that the little square in the bottom right of the counter represents supply status.

Ditto for the cards. There's no reason the effect of a card should not be displayed on the card itself. Instead, there's a general description, but I have to click and then hover over the card to see what it actually does...

There's are lots of examples like this of where a bit more attention to user-friendly, clear presentation of information would really help the game.

Perhaps one of the most important interface improvements would be something like a combat adviser, to explain the various modifiers that will apply during a combat. I don't mean something that would give you expected losses or chance of victory (I like that those remain unknown to the player, as in real life), but something that says "your panzers will get a -50% penalty for attacking into urban terrain, and a further -23% penalty for their poor readiness, and a +17% bonus for leadership ... etc etc ... for a total modifier of -xx%". This would really help the player to get a hand's-on feel for what really matters in combats.

On documentation, I found the DC1 manual to be really very substandard. DC2 was only marginally better.

Two examples: first, I start up the First Panzer Army linked campaign. No description of how the campaign works. Do my losses in scenario one carry over to scenario 2? What about experience gains? And for the Russians? Or is each scenario basically stand-alone, with only prestige and political points carrying over?

Second example: take the concept of "readiness". I know it's important, but nowhere is there a clear explanation of (a) what it represents in real life (supply state? Or organisation?); (b) how it differs from other concepts like supply and integrity; (c) what it affects in game; and (d) what things can cause it to change in the game. The manual should have a section headed "readiness" that explains all of this. Ditto for each variable in the game.

Finally, there is some sloppiness in translation to English in the game. I wince every time I read "Systematical finetuning" during the AI runs! No such word as "systematical"...

Hope you don't mind the blunt feedback on these aspects of the game. I've taken the time to put these thoughts down because I am really enjoying the game, and want the next one to be even better.

C

[Vic]

@Chuck,

Big thanks for your precise feedback. Its not blunt its honest.
As always it serves as inspiration and I'll put it to good use where possible.

At least I can already tell you for DC3 I am working on new counter graphics.

best wishes,
Vic

[76mm]

I just had this game pointed out to me (thanks Wodin!), will be keeping an eye on it. Generally it sounds like an interesting take on the campaign, I also hope that it works better than WitE...

[wodin]

No problem:)

[Gribeauval]

This game seems interesting.

- Will the player be able to reallocate a division belonging to an army to another army in DC3 ? It is not mentioned in your blog.

- I don't see in the various screenshots of the game the button allowing a strategic move by rail of a unit. Will the player still move a unit using a railroad ?

- In a screenshot, I can see a report about the german siege train. Is the siege train abstracted ? Is it a unit on the map ?

- In another screenshot, there is a "propaganda film" decision. What is it ?

[lancer]

Hi Gribeauval,

Army integrity is enforced as befits the games focus on realistic Operational Command.

Direct strategic rail movement isn't a feature. It's handled by a different mechanic that provides the same effect but cuts down on fiddliness. Rail is very important.

Siege Artillery was originally fully abstracted but it proved to be a step too far so there is now an actual unit and quite a lot of mechanics surrounding it. When the unit is relocated it's removed from the map and returns only when it arrives at it's location. Your relationship with General Gercke (in charge of Rail) has a big impact on how quickly and efficiently the siege train will transit from A to B. The Soviets can fortify and garrison major cities and these can prove difficult to take if you aren't willing to bleed your Panzer Divisions. Siege artillery is a way around this but some advance thinking needs to go into deployment and rail routes.

The propaganda film decision is a fun one. The Minister for Public Enlightenment, Reichsminister Goebbels, is requesting that you accommodate a film crew at your headquarters for the purposes of showing the people back home how the war is being prosecuted. Refuse the request and you'll upset Goebbels. Agree to it and you're in for some disruption.

Cheers,
Cameron

[Gribeauval]

Thanks Cameron.

- In the product description, I have readen this sentence : "Order your individual Divisions to report their status."
Does it mean that you won't get automatically all the infos that you need when you will click on a division counter (readiness, experience, ...)??
Will you have to request a report that will come next turn ? Can this report be a false one ? Will there be a kind of friendly FOW ?

- I have another question : during the first turn, in the german army, will all officers have a neutral attitude towards the player ? Can you have some of them acting as personal enemies independantly of the war conduct ?

- Could you also in your blog give some (quick) infos about the artificial intelligence ?

- Will the russian army use some naval units to cut the naval baltic supply line or to operate in the black sea ?

[lancer]

Hi Gribeauval,

- In the product description, I have readen this sentence : "Order your individual Divisions to report their status."
Does it mean that you won't get automatically all the infos that you need when you will click on a division counter (readiness, experience, ...)??
Will you have to request a report that will come next turn ? Can this report be a false one ? Will there be a kind of friendly FOW ?

All the information you mention is readily available without asking for a report. There is a wide range of additional information that appears as a result of a report, depending on the status of that particular unit. If you have selected a unit you can request a full report via a single click of a special, quick access button.

German reports are accurate and timely. Request for Soviet reports can result in a communication breakdown and no information arriving. The Soviet player has the ability to improve their command and control systems during the game to minimise this happening.

- I have another question : during the first turn, in the german army, will all officers have a neutral attitude towards the player ? Can you have some of them acting as personal enemies independantly of the war conduct ?

There is a detailed system in place that allows you to start the campaign with a 'past history' or relationships with other officers. There's an option to switch this of if you'd prefer to a nuetral approach.

- Could you also in your blog give some (quick) infos about the artificial intelligence ?

The blog posts have had to be put to one side as time doesn't permit it. The AI is being fine tuned as we speak but it's already at a higher level than what you'd expect. Looking good.

- Will the russian army use some naval units to cut the naval baltic supply line or to operate in the black sea ?

The naval side is dealt with abstractly as it played a minor role. The Germans have the ability to run convoys up the Baltic and can order the Luftwaffe to protect them.

Cheers,
Cameron

[budd]

will more info on the game be coming soon since its going into beta? Maybe an AAR or video lets play from a beta tester.