Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Distant Worlds is a vast, pausable real-time, 4X space strategy game which models a "living galaxy" with incredible options for replayability and customizability. Experience the full depth and detail of large turn-based strategy games, but with the simplicity and ease of real-time, and on the scale of a massively-multiplayer online game. Now greatly enhanced with the new Universe release, which includes all four previous releases as well as the new Universe expansion!

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Osito
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Osito »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
they must offer those sites exclusive first looks

How can they offer "exclusive first looks" to multiple recipients? That's like saying it's your local sofa store's "one-time weekly sale".

Or are you using some other definition of "exclusive"?

"shutting out all others from a part or share: an exclusive right to film the novel."

I guess you could give an exclusive first look to a defined 'set' of gaming sites. But in general it seems that 'exclusive' is one of those terms like 'free' or 'for a limited time only', which never seem to mean what you expect it to.

ORIGINAL: feygan
I have to call a large amount of bs on this.

Calling BS is always a choice ...
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Kayoz
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: Osito
I guess you could give an exclusive first look to a defined 'set' of gaming sites. But in general it seems that 'exclusive' is one of those terms like 'free' or 'for a limited time only', which never seem to mean what you expect it to.

If that's the case, then the sites should be exclusive - such that "exclusive sites should be given [early] first-look access". He's mistaken in applying exclusive to the "first look" instead of the sites.

He's using definition #4, instead of #5.
4. shutting out all others from a part or share: an exclusive right to film the novel.
5. fashionable; stylish: to patronize only the most exclusive designers.


Bad English, imo. Maybe it's not his native language.

*edit*
I think he meant to write, "exclusive [first-look] access should be given to selected sites".
And yes, the grammar police are on patrol.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
Cauldyth
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Cauldyth »

ORIGINAL: feygan
The expansion has been set for a Q1 release so far

Given that the game doesn't even have a product page in the Coming Soon section of Matrix's website, I'm not sure how official that Q1 date is. As far as I know, it only comes from forum posts and Space Sector's article saying that it's scheduled for March.
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Osito
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Osito »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
ORIGINAL: Osito
I guess you could give an exclusive first look to a defined 'set' of gaming sites. But in general it seems that 'exclusive' is one of those terms like 'free' or 'for a limited time only', which never seem to mean what you expect it to.

If that's the case, then the sites should be exclusive - such that "exclusive sites should be given [early] first-look access". He's mistaken in applying exclusive to the "first look" instead of the sites.

He's using definition #4, instead of #5.
4. shutting out all others from a part or share: an exclusive right to film the novel.
5. fashionable; stylish: to patronize only the most exclusive designers.


Bad English, imo. Maybe it's not his native language.

*edit*
I think he meant to write, "exclusive [first-look] access should be given to selected sites".
And yes, the grammar police are on patrol.

Haha, actually I didn't get your point first time round. Gonna be a long day. While the grammar police are out, they could set their dogs on the inadvertent grammar error in my own post. (I can't correct it now you've quoted it.)
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by feygan »

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth

ORIGINAL: feygan
The expansion has been set for a Q1 release so far

Given that the game doesn't even have a product page in the Coming Soon section of Matrix's website, I'm not sure how official that Q1 date is. As far as I know, it only comes from forum posts and Space Sector's article saying that it's scheduled for March.

The space sector interview does not say if it was just Matrix Games or the game dev that was being interviewed. But either way having a game dev or a game publishers telling you a game is "scheduled to release in march" to me sounds like a concrete statement that allows me to make statements such as "The expansion has been set for a Q1 release so far" with 100% accuracy.

If this is not the case then that only leaves the option of Space Sector making up information for their own articles which I doubt is the case.
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: feygan
... sounds like a concrete statement that allows me to make statements such as "The expansion has been set for a Q1 release so far" with 100% accuracy.

If this is not the case then that only leaves the option of Space Sector making up information for their own articles which I doubt is the case.

Or perhaps a another option: it slipped. Release date was moved since Adam's article.

It does happen.

I think Erik's lack of stating a release date publicly is an indication that things aren't going quite as smoothly as they'd hoped.

It's done when it's done. I'd rather it be released when they're happy with it, than a premature release that's buggy and completely worthless.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Erik Rutins »

Hi guys,

We're no longer aiming for the end of March, but we are close. Delays can arise for many reasons - development, art, marketing time, etc. I can't say more right now, but as soon as possible we'll share more information with you all.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Cauldyth
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Cauldyth »

We're all hoping that the lower cost of entry that will accompany Universe will bring an influx of new players, so best to have it as polished as possible. Take your time. [:)]
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by feygan »

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
ORIGINAL: feygan
... sounds like a concrete statement that allows me to make statements such as "The expansion has been set for a Q1 release so far" with 100% accuracy.

If this is not the case then that only leaves the option of Space Sector making up information for their own articles which I doubt is the case.

Or perhaps a another option: it slipped. Release date was moved since Adam's article.

It does happen.

I think Erik's lack of stating a release date publicly is an indication that things aren't going quite as smoothly as they'd hoped.

It's done when it's done. I'd rather it be released when they're happy with it, than a premature release that's buggy and completely worthless.


I completely agree with you there, however that then opens up a huge problem. It opens to door then for questions such as:

Is the dev/publisher so lacking in their basic job skills that they could not forsee such problems as they begin to arise and calculate them into how it effects the completion date?
Has the dev/publisher known about said issues and how they will effect the date, but chosen to with hold such information until as late as possible for fear it could impact sales.

The first implies incompetence and the second dishonesty, both negative traits that have no place in business.

Seeing as we just had a post from Erik regarding the now known delays things start smelling fishy. No professional of any kind who embarks on a six month or longer project would only discover problems that large a mere couple of weeks (at best) before the said project is due completion, it would simply demean their own abilities. Had Matrix Games come out last month or whenever they even suspected a delay and told potential customers they would of looked proactive and upfront. Now it makes them look reactive and backed into a corner.

I only wonder how long they would of kept a lid on these "new" delays had this thread not been going on with folks bashing the publishers for their strategies. Granted it could be concluded I am being impatient and somewhat petulant thinking I have a right to this game, that is not the case. I don't care if it takes three years to develop and release in a well made manner. However if anyone chooses to enter a rough and cut throat business market then they should expect to be held to the highest standard by their customers and peers, anything even fractionally less is not good enough and belongs in the hobby corner.
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by PipFromSlitherine »

ORIGINAL: feygan

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
ORIGINAL: feygan
... sounds like a concrete statement that allows me to make statements such as "The expansion has been set for a Q1 release so far" with 100% accuracy.

If this is not the case then that only leaves the option of Space Sector making up information for their own articles which I doubt is the case.

Or perhaps a another option: it slipped. Release date was moved since Adam's article.

It does happen.

I think Erik's lack of stating a release date publicly is an indication that things aren't going quite as smoothly as they'd hoped.

It's done when it's done. I'd rather it be released when they're happy with it, than a premature release that's buggy and completely worthless.


I completely agree with you there, however that then opens up a huge problem. It opens to door then for questions such as:

Is the dev/publisher so lacking in their basic job skills that they could not forsee such problems as they begin to arise and calculate them into how it effects the completion date?
Has the dev/publisher known about said issues and how they will effect the date, but chosen to with hold such information until as late as possible for fear it could impact sales.

The first implies incompetence and the second dishonesty, both negative traits that have no place in business.

Seeing as we just had a post from Erik regarding the now known delays things start smelling fishy. No professional of any kind who embarks on a six month or longer project would only discover problems that large a mere couple of weeks (at best) before the said project is due completion, it would simply demean their own abilities. Had Matrix Games come out last month or whenever they even suspected a delay and told potential customers they would of looked proactive and upfront. Now it makes them look reactive and backed into a corner.

I only wonder how long they would of kept a lid on these "new" delays had this thread not been going on with folks bashing the publishers for their strategies. Granted it could be concluded I am being impatient and somewhat petulant thinking I have a right to this game, that is not the case. I don't care if it takes three years to develop and release in a well made manner. However if anyone chooses to enter a rough and cut throat business market then they should expect to be held to the highest standard by their customers and peers, anything even fractionally less is not good enough and belongs in the hobby corner.
Game development is not like other software development (which, it needs to be said, is almost always late anyway). While not being privy to the details of DW delay it's incredibly common for games to be delayed at what appears to be the last minute. Implying incompetence, malice, subterfuge (or all three) is not warranted.

Cheers

Pip
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by DasTactic »

You only get one chance to launch - especially as the game sounds like it will be more accessible price-wise to a larger audience. So keep polishing away and get it as solid as possible. :) The wait will be worth it. :)
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Cauldyth »

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine
Game development is not like other software development (which, it needs to be said, is almost always late anyway). While not being privy to the details of DW delay it's incredibly common for games to be delayed at what appears to be the last minute. Implying incompetence, malice, subterfuge (or all three) is not warranted.

Yeah, a game isn't going to ship on time... unprecedented! [:D]
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by feygan »

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine
Game development is not like other software development (which, it needs to be said, is almost always late anyway). While not being privy to the details of DW delay it's incredibly common for games to be delayed at what appears to be the last minute. Implying incompetence, malice, subterfuge (or all three) is not warranted.

Cheers

Pip

In what way is video game development any different from any other technical process that gives it a special exemption from outside criticism of the process? While the fine details of any trade can be simple or complex the basic route of any product is a basic and simple one.

1.You have an idea.
2.You rough out the basics of how the idea will come to being, and develop method or technology that may be required.
3.All the pitching and funding parts (I will skip most of the details for sake of saving my keyboard)
4.You begin the actual design parts and start to compose them into something that resembles a product.
5.You put a prototype version of the product out for testing to a select group.
6.After feedback you rectify any problems raised in the testing stage.
7.You test again
8.You put out a finished product (assuming your testing has resolved all issues).

There really is nothing else to it and any successful and established business will tell you that. If the expansion was due to be released at the end of March then by mid March it would of likely been finished and ready for mass manufacture and stocking. So if in the middle of the first week of March, a problem arises that pushes back the release. You have only a number of scenarios.

1. The developer lacked the ability to design a product without a serious flaw.
2. The testing period was either inadequate in size/time or feedback was ignored thus causing a failure in the product.
3. The distributor of the product placed an unrealistic time constraint on the developer making a timely delivery impossible.
4. The distributor knew of a problem prior to now but chose to not disclose it for their own reasons.

There simply is no other options if a good practice model was followed you can only have a set number of possible failure points.

I do not know the role any of the forum moderators hold within the Matrix company structure other than as forum moderators, as such I do not expect them to be fountains of knowledge on Matrix Games products. But if the potential customers of a company are asking for information then surely you would be banging on the doors of your respective company contacts for such information. So far it has been the same old sales pitch line about "unforseen delays, these things are common" and so on. We live in an age where single person companies are springing up all the time, and with kickstarters all over customers are getting to see real insight into development.

Spend five minutes on any indie game forum and the developer will be littering it with updates on what they have added, what bugs have been quashed, and what new problems have suddenly demolished six months of their work life. Also these projects never get complaints regarding marketing or time delays, this is because they bother to inform. I understand the dw developer likely cannot spend their time on this forum posting (we would rather they were coding our new shiny expansion). But Matrix Games does have at least one person in their marketing and sales department I am sure. Having regular contact with their game makers and then using an intermediary to inform and communicate in total honesty about products surely cannot be that hard? After all they already have someone spending time posting facebooks, tweets and youtubes.

These are the reasons for comments such as earlier in this thread "Your marketing strategy is CRAP, Matrix. Why haven't we heard a FREAKING THING about Universe?" That right there should be a giant red alarm the company is doing something wrong. That person probably doesn't care if the expansion is delayed or not but they do care that a company refuses to offer any information as to upcoming delays or even communicate.

To say it is unwarranted of me to accuse Matrix games of either incompetence or with holding information is frail. This is a publisher with a history of taking a lot of games to market, it is not a new kid on the block. Even if they were new I would still have high expectations, I have high expectations of everyone who provides any form of paid service. If you charge for a service but cannot give the absolute best service in your industry you will get criticised for it and held to account, this is how as a company you learn from your mistakes and improve your service to be the number one there is in your industry. If that is not the goal of the company they have no business being in business.
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by PipFromSlitherine »

ORIGINAL: feygan

ORIGINAL: PipFromSlitherine
Game development is not like other software development (which, it needs to be said, is almost always late anyway). While not being privy to the details of DW delay it's incredibly common for games to be delayed at what appears to be the last minute. Implying incompetence, malice, subterfuge (or all three) is not warranted.

Cheers

Pip

In what way is video game development any different from any other technical process that gives it a special exemption from outside criticism of the process? While the fine details of any trade can be simple or complex the basic route of any product is a basic and simple one.

1.You have an idea.
2.You rough out the basics of how the idea will come to being, and develop method or technology that may be required.
3.All the pitching and funding parts (I will skip most of the details for sake of saving my keyboard)
4.You begin the actual design parts and start to compose them into something that resembles a product.
5.You put a prototype version of the product out for testing to a select group.
6.After feedback you rectify any problems raised in the testing stage.
7.You test again
8.You put out a finished product (assuming your testing has resolved all issues).

There really is nothing else to it and any successful and established business will tell you that. If the expansion was due to be released at the end of March then by mid March it would of likely been finished and ready for mass manufacture and stocking. So if in the middle of the first week of March, a problem arises that pushes back the release. You have only a number of scenarios.

1. The developer lacked the ability to design a product without a serious flaw.
2. The testing period was either inadequate in size/time or feedback was ignored thus causing a failure in the product.
3. The distributor of the product placed an unrealistic time constraint on the developer making a timely delivery impossible.
4. The distributor knew of a problem prior to now but chose to not disclose it for their own reasons.

There simply is no other options if a good practice model was followed you can only have a set number of possible failure points.

I do not know the role any of the forum moderators hold within the Matrix company structure other than as forum moderators, as such I do not expect them to be fountains of knowledge on Matrix Games products. But if the potential customers of a company are asking for information then surely you would be banging on the doors of your respective company contacts for such information. So far it has been the same old sales pitch line about "unforseen delays, these things are common" and so on. We live in an age where single person companies are springing up all the time, and with kickstarters all over customers are getting to see real insight into development.

Spend five minutes on any indie game forum and the developer will be littering it with updates on what they have added, what bugs have been quashed, and what new problems have suddenly demolished six months of their work life. Also these projects never get complaints regarding marketing or time delays, this is because they bother to inform. I understand the dw developer likely cannot spend their time on this forum posting (we would rather they were coding our new shiny expansion). But Matrix Games does have at least one person in their marketing and sales department I am sure. Having regular contact with their game makers and then using an intermediary to inform and communicate in total honesty about products surely cannot be that hard? After all they already have someone spending time posting facebooks, tweets and youtubes.

These are the reasons for comments such as earlier in this thread "Your marketing strategy is CRAP, Matrix. Why haven't we heard a FREAKING THING about Universe?" That right there should be a giant red alarm the company is doing something wrong. That person probably doesn't care if the expansion is delayed or not but they do care that a company refuses to offer any information as to upcoming delays or even communicate.

To say it is unwarranted of me to accuse Matrix games of either incompetence or with holding information is frail. This is a publisher with a history of taking a lot of games to market, it is not a new kid on the block. Even if they were new I would still have high expectations, I have high expectations of everyone who provides any form of paid service. If you charge for a service but cannot give the absolute best service in your industry you will get criticised for it and held to account, this is how as a company you learn from your mistakes and improve your service to be the number one there is in your industry. If that is not the goal of the company they have no business being in business.
We are primarily a digital business and as such we don't have months of mass manufacture or stocking. Given that games across all developers, all platforms, and all genres are more often late than not I would suggest that your assertions on how development works are perhaps a little reductive. In fact you mention Kickstarter projects - and from my reading something like 75% of all technical projects are delivered late, if at all.

I appreciate that players keen for the game may be frustrated by delays and crave more information, but often there is no definitive information to give.

Cheers

Pip
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Ralzakark »

It is ready when it is ready.

Personally, I won't loose much sleep tonight over a PC game being delivered slightly later than originally notified.
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Kayoz
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Kayoz »

ORIGINAL: feygan
You have only a number of scenarios.

<snip>

There simply is no other options if a good practice model was followed you can only have a set number of possible failure points.

You've never worked in software development, have you?

If you're going to say that your 4-item list is comprehensive in explaining release date slipping - then all I can say is that you give the distinct impression of someone who's never written any software.

Reasons abound. Everything from unexpected leave/sickness, to testers discovering bugs late in the development cycle that take longer than expected (time allocated for "last minute" fixes is insufficient) to fix, to contract artists not delivering assets on time. Many reasons for which Matrix won't speak (nor any other software publisher or developer) publicly.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” &#8213; Christopher Hitchens
Cauldyth
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Cauldyth »

Making a game is very different than most technical processes. There are also the issues of fun, balance, and AI. None of those can be planned and scheduled ahead of time. You'll only find out as you implement things and play the game whether or not it's working out well, or whether you need to go back and rethink things.
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Shark7 »

Just my $.02, but...

I'd much rather have a game's release delayed so that its ready when I get it as opposed to buying a defective product. It is far less frustrating to have to wait a few weeks longer to make the purchase than having a game I can't play that I already payed for.
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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by hjc »

I'm someone who is interested in Distant Worlds. Having skimmed through some of the threads in this forum, I'll add my (not yet paid) .02

I haven't jumped in yet because of the cost. Sure the base game is probably within reason, but then I read the descriptions and reviews of all the expansions, and the message that sticks out to me is "this expansion makes the interface much more useable and less awkward". UI improvement matters much more to me than a new race or storyline, so those are some pretty expensive patches. On the one hand it's great the dev is paying attention and seeking to improve the game but on the other, to have to pay $120 (more by the time my currency is converted) for the game "with all the improvements" without having at least played a demo is not going to happen.

Please don't think this is me saying it's not worth the money. I'm just saying I won't risk that much dough.

There is light at the end of the wormhole though, I hope the Universe bundle/wrapup is realistically priced, although seeing how Matrix pricing has been going lately, hmm. I don't mind if it takes longer to get released as long as it's done right. I'm an optimist, so I look forward to playing it and finding out what a blast the game is, and coming back here to join you all.

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RE: Space Sector Preview For Distant Worlds - Universe

Post by Icemania »

Please take your time Matrix. Ensure this is by far the highest quality Distant Worlds release. After all you'll going need to make sure it's high quality for all of those Game Reviews coming up as part of your new and improved Marketing Strategy.

Speaking of which, whether you like it or not, you might get some broader attention regardless.

With Angry Joe expressing his apparent obsession for 4X (start 12:36), dropping by the Stardrive forums, you never know we might even see a Distant Worlds Universe Angry Joe Review (there are plenty of Space Monsters in Distant Worlds Joe). And the last thing we all want is a review like this (you only need to watch the first 15 seconds). That said, like so many others, he appears unaware that Distant Worlds even exists ...


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