A Clash of Titans, Xhoel (Axis) vs Bitburger (Soviet)

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: xhoel
@M60A3TTS: In my opponents defense, Bitburger did use tank brigades in successful attacks during the blizzard offensive but then left them on the front which made them vulnerable to counterattacks. So their wins get balanced by the losses taken from the German counter moves. Last time we talked he mentioned that unfortunately there are no Guard Tank Brigades/Corps yet.

I am very curious if there is any definitive duide to farming guards tanks. I suspect M60A3TTS might know it.

I never saw a guide, but in the 8MP game farming wins for tank brigades was part of the Soviet blizzard plan from the first week. We just didn't spam them everywhere since you generally aren't going to need more than 14 guards brigades for the corps conversions. Plus it burns way too many trucks sending them all forward. Probably 75-80% of the tank brigades simply hung out in the rear gaining experience the whole blizzard, while the ones that had any wins at all were the brigades selected for farming.

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

We just didn't spam them everywhere since you generally aren't going to need more than 14 guards brigades for the corps conversions. Plus it burns way too many trucks sending them all forward.

This seems to be a good plan. As long as you take care of the Brigades after they get some wins, they should get Guards status. I am curious why 14 is the "right number" though? That would translate to 7 Guard Tank Corps, but why settle for 7 when you could get more?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

We just didn't spam them everywhere since you generally aren't going to need more than 14 guards brigades for the corps conversions. Plus it burns way too many trucks sending them all forward.

This seems to be a good plan. As long as you take care of the Brigades after they get some wins, they should get Guards status. I am curious why 14 is the "right number" though? That would translate to 7 Guard Tank Corps, but why settle for 7 when you could get more?

The impression I get is that Soviet commanders like to make as many tank units as possible and believe the T34 production pool is limitless. The Soviet commanders who have got to the end of the game know it is not - indeed in the last three long games I have seen the Soviet side ran out of medium tanks before the end of the war. So there is an optimum number to pace yourself with - guess 7 tank corps is it?

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

We just didn't spam them everywhere since you generally aren't going to need more than 14 guards brigades for the corps conversions. Plus it burns way too many trucks sending them all forward.

This seems to be a good plan. As long as you take care of the Brigades after they get some wins, they should get Guards status. I am curious why 14 is the "right number" though? That would translate to 7 Guard Tank Corps, but why settle for 7 when you could get more?

No, you are making the common mistake of thinking that tank and infantry guards corps use the same formula. They do not. For tanks, the corps when formed takes for its combat record the most wins and losses of all three brigades.

As an example, here are the combat record of three tank brigades to form a corps.

12-9
0-0
2-10

The record of the corps will become 12-10. That makes it guards eligible. So the goal is to get 14 brigades to 12 or so wins so they can all convert to guards tank corps. The 14 is simply the most I typically get based on the percentage of guard tank corps to total tank corps allowed in the game.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
The impression I get is that Soviet commanders like to make as many tank units as possible and believe the T34 production pool is limitless. The Soviet commanders who have got to the end of the game know it is not - indeed in the last three long games I have seen the Soviet side ran out of medium tanks before the end of the war. So there is an optimum number to pace yourself with - guess 7 tank corps is it?

So as to not overburden the truck fleet, I cap my total tank corps out at around 28. topeverest ran into problems with trucks in his game because in part he overbuilt tank corps.

[xhoel]

@Telemecus: True, it seems that overbuilding Tank/Motorized formations is a flaw in many Soviet players strategy.

@M60A3TTS: This is very interesting info indeed, thanks for posting. I have not seen this documented in the manual at all, might be a good idea to post it on another thread, for all players to know. 28 sounds about right to me. If I recall correctly the Soviets build around 30-31 Tank Corps in total (even though not all of them were active) so your numbers seem spot on.

Thanks for the info again!

[mouse707]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

The impression I get is that Soviet commanders like to make as many tank units as possible and believe the T34 production pool is limitless. The Soviet commanders who have got to the end of the game know it is not - indeed in the last three long games I have seen the Soviet side ran out of medium tanks before the end of the war. So there is an optimum number to pace yourself with - guess 7 tank corps is it?

Yes, in a game against Bitburger going to 1945, I had too many tank corps, then tanks shortages and more importantly, truck shortages, even in 1944

[xhoel]

As some of you may have noticed, my opponent Bitburger has resigned from all of his ongoing games on the 1.11.03 patch. He did offer to resign from this one for reasons that I understand very well. By talking things through, a resignation has been avoided and the game will continue albeit it will be on pause till a new patch comes out.

I understand Bitburgers frustration with the current patch. The experience bug affects the Soviets a lot and prohibits the Red Army from being as formidable as it can be. Another thing that was mentioned was that the OOB is too low due to the multipliers being changed. These and other factors means that the Red Army doesn't have a lot of punch and can only counterattack in rare cases unlike historically.

The current beta patch fixes the exp bug and increases manpower multipliers as well as makes logistics harder. It also adds more features that can help the Soviets, like making urban centers harder to take. However it is very unstable as many of the bug postings have shown. Therefore we are waiting for a stable version to come out, before switching to it and continuing the game in that version.

PS: We are now on turn 65 and all the pockets have held. Cleaning them up has yielded around 200k Soviet casualties.

[Telemecus]

Wonderful news that it will go on - both for the game and this AAR.

Also has the added benefit that it will be the first serious AAR in 1942 when the v1.12 stablises.

So good news!

[xhoel]

Thanks Tele, fingers crossed morvael posts a new stable patch soon! Only 4 more weeks till the clear season ends.

[John B.]

Thanks for the update and kudos to Bitburger for keeping the fight alive!

[Vifee]

Hope to see this game continue in 1.12.

[xhoel]

@Vifee: It will continue in 1.12.03!

I sent the turn to Bitburger yesterday. We are continuing the game in the new patch. Expect updates soon!

[Telemecus]

This AAR was too good to lose, so glad it is back!

[vilcum]

real good news

[Model1950]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

We just didn't spam them everywhere since you generally aren't going to need more than 14 guards brigades for the corps conversions. Plus it burns way too many trucks sending them all forward.

This seems to be a good plan. As long as you take care of the Brigades after they get some wins, they should get Guards status. I am curious why 14 is the "right number" though? That would translate to 7 Guard Tank Corps, but why settle for 7 when you could get more?

Nice.

I believe reserve reaction is not working - but no big deal who uses it [:)]

[xhoel]

@Telemecus and @vilcum: Thank you gents, for the kinds words! Feels nice to be back in the game.

@Model1950: To get a unit to reserve activate you have to fulfill a number of requirements: proper MPs, proper distance, proper command, good rolls, proper CV ratios. I've seen it happen on both sides so don't think it is broken, maybe you are just lacking some of the reqs or just had bad luck with the rolls.

[Model1950]

ORIGINAL: xhoel

@Telemecus and @vilcum: Thank you gents, for the kinds words! Feels nice to be back in the game.

@Model1950: To get a unit to reserve activate you have to fulfill a number of requirements: proper MPs, proper distance, proper command, good rolls, proper CV ratios. I've seen it happen on both sides so don't think it is broken, maybe you are just lacking some of the reqs or just had bad luck with the rolls.

You know the rules ( how they should work) you get a gold star - but yes it is not working.

Tell morveal he do the work and fix it, hope he is feeling better or this game will be a sht show same for 2.0

[xhoel]

ORIGINAL: Model1950

You know the rules ( how they should work) you get a gold star - but yes it is not working.

Ah yes, being condescending to someone, who answered to your complain and was trying to help you out, that's a great way to engage someone.

ORIGINAL: Model1950

Tell morveal he do the work and fix it, hope he is feeling better or this game will be a sht show same for 2.0

I think you need to get down from that palace in the clouds where you are residing and understand that neither morvael, nor I take commands from you. Use that tiny brain of yours to post bugs in the Tech Support section, but make sure your game version is the proper one, so you don't go around posting non existent bugs like you did last time. Also notice that this is an AAR, not a discussion about whatever bugs you are encountering. Post in the appropriate sections.

[John B.]

Very glad that this AAR is back!