DV vs Sillyflower/Belphagor (Game Over - Open Thread)

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Wow - I've built my fair share of forts but I've never seen that many Finnish forts! Where is your front line in the south? In my game with the "The Pro's" they defended the Stalino area with everything they had and prevented me from re-taking it after the blizzard.

I never took Stalino...Sean ran all the way there and stopped me in my tracks.

The finnish forts plus heavy woods makes a nasty path for unwary Soviets.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 66 - NORTHERN FRONT[/center]

This area is largely static so not much going on until recently. Sillyflower had been hammering a hole in the static front so I figured it could be trap material. I slowly moved a weakened 4th Pz Group to the area along with a Rifle/Mech Corps to reinforce. Once Sillyflower stuck his head out I whacked it off with a quick thrust. Bagged 3 divisions. Front stabilized.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 66 - DEEP SOUTHERN FRONT[/center]

This area of the front is not so rosy. Sillyflower bragged that his offensive was meant to distract me from Sean making his move in the South. IT was actually quite funny as both of us were engaging in psychological warfare in our emails. He was threatening to be in Pskov by end of year while I boasted that the whole Reich would arrive to stop him. Both of us were lying. I had been transferring 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Pz Groups to the South by rail for the last 3 turns and was preparing one last thrust before mud. Only to find that Sean had launched a major attack of his own. This picture shows the aftermath of Pocket (Sean), Counterpocket (me), and now pocket from Sean again. This turn I should be able to seal off a large number of troops and stabilize the front till snow.

[smokindave34]

That took some guts on Sean's part to launch an offensive this early in the war. Not sure it was a good idea on his part to put his tank corps and cavalry corps out there so exposed - although if you didn't have your panzers in the area this could have caused you considerable trouble.

[Callistrid]

Disgruntled Veteran, can you post a SV pic, to understand better the situation?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Disgruntled Veteran, can you post a SV pic, to understand better the situation?

SV?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

That took some guts on Sean's part to launch an offensive this early in the war. Not sure it was a good idea on his part to put his tank corps and cavalry corps out there so exposed - although if you didn't have your panzers in the area this could have caused you considerable trouble.

Their recons are very predictable. They never scout beyond 5 hexes back. I simply moved my Panzer Mass to just within his sights. That aside I was very weak in the South. He had been doing prepatory fort reducing assaults for weeks now. It wasn't bad call on his part especially since it appeared that I had taken Sillyflower's bait.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]TURN 66 - AFTERMATH[/center]

This is the pandemonium that is the end of my turn. Being that all my elite infantry and 3/4 of my mech were within 5 hexes, sealing and securing this pocket wasn't a challenging task. The pocket should hold. Unfortunately many luscious prices managed to rout their way out. I lost 2 Tank Corps and a Guards Rifle Corps to routs. No choice though..it was either that or a weak pocket. Also working against me is the mess my units C&C is in.

I have a porridge bowl of 2 Army Groups, 9 Armies, and 4 nationalities involved. The narrow spaces meant many different commands are going to have to share spaces..oh well. The haul...assuming the pocket holds:

7 Rifle Divisions
4 Guards Cavalry Corps
3 Tank Corps
1 Tank Brigade.

Not too bad. Plus it taught Sean to leave me alone for the remainder of summer. I imagine him laying low until after Fall mud. I could use it too. 5 of my tank divisions have 10 tanks or less. I have less than 2k in the field and haven't seen an armaments surplus in 7 turns. I'm burned out.

[Callistrid]

Well, the soviet will break the pocket... the soutern flank is weak

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Well, the soviet will break the pocket... the soutern flank is weak

Perhaps, but only for one turn. I couldn't simultaneously create, compress, and adequately defend the pocket this turn due to dozens of battles that needed to be fought. However, the Southern front has 4 enemy hexes that need to be flipped with dozens of battles along the way. They may break it but it won't be that easy. Sean's heavy hitters are positioned further E/NE. The coastal units are mostly infantry ants with some Cavalry Corps.

Edit: Furthermore, being that the bulk of the pocket is anchored deep behind a firmly held river bank. Any deep attack in the South is an invitation for further pocketing. I might actually enjoy just such an attempt by Sean.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Ok..so I largely gave up on my AAR's after school started back, but I find it fitting to update now that my current game against Sillyflower/Belphagor is coming to a close. Here's a brief summary of the last 100 or so turns:

My 42 offensive started well but quickly ran into a grind. SF/BG started a late 42 offensive and quickly started gaining ground. Luckily it was close to fall so I was able to refit but the summer of 43 brought about a near destruction of my army. I must of lost about 60 divisions and I didn't have armaments surplus for the rest of 43. MY army consisted of 1-2 CV ants and it was down to near 2.5m with a huge manpower surplus and 0 armaments. The Pro's graciously offered a surrender, but I knew they were frustrated with previous opponents for quitting so I declined and offered to stay in the fight. My goal was to hit 01/45.

So I decided on a mass withdrawal over the blizzard of 43-44. This would buy me the time to get my 50+ frozen divisions (I disbanded about 10 of them..if they were @50-54 morale) time to unfreeze and put some strain on the Pro's truck fleet. I withdrew 2 hexes a turn for about 10 turns. Let me tell you. This was the best idea I had. I managed to field all 500-600k manpower in reserve and finally saw an armaments pile by March. Yes I gave up a lot of territory, but my army was 3m+ and had lots of punch on a shorter front. I managed to fight back and hold a line until mud.

I knew 44 would be be my death knell but I used the Carpathian mountains and the good terrain of Poland as best I could. Its now September 44 and the Vistula line is about gone. I figure If I can avoid catastrophe for the next 5-6 turns till mud then January 45 is very doable. Here's a big screenshot.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Here is a couple well learned lessons from this game.

1- In this game I played the old Blizzard and tried to stand and fight. Not a good idea. IT gave him too many guards units and punished me mercilessly. I only lost 11 divisions but the rest of the army was fleeced too.

2- I will never allow paradrops in another game again. They are too OP in a hex game like this. Let me make this clear..I do not blame my loss on paradrops but they definitely made my defeat come about a lot sooner. No whining or bitching here..just a realization of a hard learned lesson. Many of the large pockets SF/BG created had a lot of para help. They also used them to clear mtn hexes. a small 500 man para brigade could paralyze 100k men.

3- I largely gave up half way through this game only to regain interest during my blizzard retreat. Some turns I barely did anything before sending the turn back. I was very demoralized and wanted them to Coup de grace me. After a small fit I decided to stop being selfish and play with earnest. I've played a good defense since then. My point: Even after facing huge disaster its amazing how well a german player can defend if they maximize every advantage. My managing TOE's and disbanding a lot of armament hogs you can keep the Wehrmacht in fighting trim through repeated disaster. Had I fought diligently throughout 43 I would still lose before 05/45 but it would be more of a challenge.

Finally. I am looking for a good Soviet opponent for 1.08 when its released. I don't want a uber professional but someone who is good @Soviet and wants to face an opponent like me.I won't start until this game is finished but that shouldn't be long. Let me know if someone is interested.

NO paradrops
mild winter
random weather

These rules are solid the rest are negotiable. Personally I am thinking of a HR to limit recon missions to maybe 6 per turn. Leave more surprise to the game.

[Oshawott]

My managing TOE's and disbanding a lot of armament hogs you can keep the Wehrmacht in fighting trim through repeated disaster.

Could you please tell which specific units are armament hogs?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

My managing TOE's and disbanding a lot of armament hogs you can keep the Wehrmacht in fighting trim through repeated disaster.

Could you please tell which specific units are armament hogs?

Sure.

-Heavy Artillery.. You have to be the judge of this. For me..after the German offensive has stopped, I disband everything over the 210mm guns. Not only are they very expensive to replace (which you will start to lose them on the defense very fast) but also the ammo cost. Guns are helpful in disrupting attacks but a few huge guns are outweighed by the vast expense.

-SP Flak of all types. The Germans get tons of these SU's and these are pretty expensive to replace. Not only that but almost all your later Mechanized units use the same equipment. Keep them around in 41-42 if you like, but scrap them when the Russians start attacking with huge stacks.

-Level Bombers. I'm mixed about these. I won't necessarily tell others to start scrapping them right away, but I am not a huge fan of keeping them around on the defense. Not a huge armament hog themselves but the ammo cost to keep them flying every turn gets prohibitive. Not worth the costs in the late game IMO.

-Rebuilt divisions that spawn with a low morale roll. In the late game your going to find that you have far more divisions than your armament production can keep at full TOE. Especially when your losing 1k guns and 100k men a turn, your going to have to decide between tons of mediocrity or a smaller, but leaner fighting force. In my current game with the Pro's I have disbanded at least 30-40 divisions that spawned with around 50 morale. It takes too long to get morale back up high and in the meantime they will lose far more battles and suck up valuable arms. Scrap em.

[Oshawott]

Very interesting. Thanks! I will check this out in my current Axis game.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

Very interesting. Thanks! I will check this out in my current Axis game.

Sure..but I forgot a few.

-Anything cavalry. The Germans don't get a lot of cavalry, but their late game divisions use a limited number of cavalry squads. Use your cavalry divisions/brigades with care. If they have high morale..than keep them as a reserve of some sort. If they are low morale..scrap em.

-And anything starting with panzergrenadier. Such as PzG motor squads..pioneer sqauds etc. These are the most expensive squads in the game and most of your 43 onward mech units use them. You can't really afford to scrap these as these are your strongest hitters but if they get destroyed it might be best to disband them especially if they respawn with low morale.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]DOWNFALL - T182 DECEMBER 7, 1944[/center]

So the end is nigh. After insisting on ending this game properly I put forth all effort to make it to 1945 as a personal goal. Looks like I stand a good chance. Armament production is actually doing a good job at keeping all my units at 90% TOE. Surprising but 1944 is a good production year.

The Pro's are very good and have tons of Guards everything but they are facing a wall of 'x' CV values in a 10 hex front in front of Berlin. All rear divisions are in reserve. I have to last 4 more turns. I still hold about 1/4th of the Oder.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

[center]DOWNFALL SOUTH[/center]

Here si the Southern end.

[swkuh]

Your thoughts about the game and approach, KUDOS.

in re German monster artillery (240mm & up,) I use only for strategically significant points (Moscow, Stalingrad, defense of Berlin, Vienna) and otherwise keep them at GHQ. Don't think their cost is then excessive. I'll look again, though.

BTW, in re para-drops, what does "too OP" mean?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: rrbill

Your thoughts about the game and approach, KUDOS.

in re German monster artillery (240mm & up,) I use only for strategically significant points (Moscow, Stalingrad, defense of Berlin, Vienna) and otherwise keep them at GHQ. Don't think their cost is then excessive. I'll look again, though.

BTW, in re para-drops, what does "too OP" mean?

Over powered. I don't like to guess at percentages, but I'll say a lot of pockets were created with help from paratroopers. I always find these little ant strength para's being dropped behind me. I mean..a lot of the time. Even if pockets aren't created..para's can capture mtn or rough hexes in the rear, raid factories behind the lines, etc. Intercept doesn't help as they will still land even if a single squad survives. Paradrops and week long turns don't mix.

Again, I don't blame my loss on para's and this isn't an embattled rant..its just a game feature I don't like and I will refuse to play with them again.

Good points about the guns.