new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel

[BrianG]

next turn

This unit did not move. I repeat this unit did not move. Is it showing he moved? then that would be totally incorrect and the supply formula has a bug.

only 20mp's

something is not right

[redrum68]

Its showing it didn't move (movement modifier 100%). Its modifiers are very good just missing a few trucks (94% total). The problem must be with available fuel/supplies in the nearby towns/cities since it only receives 30% fuel. You would need to look at the HQ supply info and your RAIL % in the event log. Most likely your rail production or supply production is too low to supply all your units.

[BrianG]

supply and rail info.

[BrianG]

armor corp info

The 2 high fatigue tanks have already moved.

[redrum68]

Sorry I should have been more clear. Need to see the supply details window for the tank corp HQ as that will show what town/city its pulling supply from and what percentage it had available. And for supply/rail you want to look towards the bottom of the event log (RESOURCE STATUS) which shows how much you need of each and how much you had available.

[BrianG]

hq supply

better pic

[BrianG]

RESOURCE STATUS

[redrum68]

Yeah, you have a very serious rail capacity shortage. The HQ is pulling from Pugachevo which only has 31% of the needed fuel and you only have 21% of the needed rail capacity to deliver supplies/fuel to cities for HQs/units to pull from. I'm guessing most of your tanks are getting only around 30% of the fuel they need and most infantry/cavalry are probably only getting a portion of the supplies they need.

If you haven't already, you should turn reserve rail to 0% and make sure you don't have any units on trains. Essentially you need to try to increase free rail capacity (you also aren't producing much rail capacity overall, I'm guessing you've lost a lot of the rail centers at this point). Also try to reduce the rail capacity NEED as you essentially are only producing enough rail capacity (95383) to support 1/3 of what you need (331336) right now so most units are only receiving 1/3 of their needed fuel/supply.

[Telemecus]

Problem

[redrum68]

Most likely with the supply system changes, there needs to either be a higher Soviet rail capacity multiplier in 1942+ or just more Soviet railyard production. Here is the current multipliers:

26. Introduced yearly multipliers to rail capacity. Axis: 5, 6, 7, 8, 7. Soviet: 7 (3.5 in June 1941), 7, 8, 9, 10. Previously Axis rail capacity was not multiplied, and Soviet rail capacity was multiplied by 5 (2.5 in June 1941). However, rail capacity was used only for unit transport, and was effectively unlimited for the purposes of resource transport.

[Telemecus]

From memory there is no off map soviet rail capacity. In other industries there are and it is a real problem for the soviet side if there are no railyards further east as historically there would have been.

[redrum68]

Yeah, there are no off-map railyards. Essentially there is about 300 railyard capacity to start but I'm guessing on average the Soviets lose 1/3 to 1/2 of that in 1941 especially if you lose Moscow/Leningrad. Here are the top railyards so losing too many of these is gonna cause significant rail capacity shortages later on:

[BrianG]

i just lowered rail reserve to 0%.

so supply better get better!

[redrum68]

That should help a little bit but even with it at 0% you still are gonna be around 30%. You probably over evacuated ARM/HI and need to either re-evacuate them to reduce production or decrease the percentages at the bottom of the production screen to reduce supply need. Also do whatever you can to not move your tanks so they aren't burning through fuel.

[BrianG]

Matrix Trooper


 

Posts: 180
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: online That should help a little bit but even with it at 0% you still are gonna be around 30%. You probably over evacuated ARM/HI and need to either re-evacuate them to reduce production or decrease the percentages at the bottom of the production screen to reduce supply need. Also do whatever you can to not move your tanks so they aren't burning through fuel.

but i have lots of fuel. and not high demand as my force is small.

Really would tilt game again to how one does in first few months. Russia is supposed to be resilient and they would NOT under any condition allow the tanks to be unfueled.

Basic 101. If the supply from one city is insufficient they would just get it from another. Correct. Or the supply officer would be ___________! This is the RED army.

Losing rr junctions should not mean less supply to front troops. It assuming loss of freight cars but the russians are also operating on a much smaller scale to the front lines from the factories. The further east the front the closer to their supplies bases. Number of depots is irrelevant. Except as to the supply formula.

[Telemecus]

I think unfortunately this is the law of unintended consequences.

When you make big changes in a system in which you cannot evaluate exhaustively every alternative, you must play test it to be sure of what will happen. v1.12 is a big design change. We are now play testing it to find the rail supply problems in 1942 onwards. I certainly think an overall design would have made sure there were off map soviet railyards. Changing multipliers would not easily cope with all the possible situations.

In theory the number of trains and rail carts you had could be a constraint in war and occasionally was. In practise though it was the easiest to flex and both sides found coal powered steam engines the easiest form of powered transport to increase.

Remember these are just the constraints as know them now. Once understood it is open for an opponent to choke it even further. Will railyard bombing be the new HQ bombing?

[redrum68]

Agree. Probably need to add some off map railyard capacity as well as decrease the amount in Moscow/Leningrad so that keeping/losing them doesn't determine whether you can or can't get supplies to your units. That or make it so railyards can be evacuated like HI/ARM so that so much isn't lost in 1941.

[joelmar]

In RL, railyards are not only important for train maintenance, but even more as hubs to organise freight and switch cars. Not enough of those and the rail systems gets clogged with traffic jams at the hubs, with trains waiting on side lines and a lot of freight still in the warehouses because freight cars could not get there to load it, so there is really a big consequence of this to the level of supplies available to the front troops.

For gameplay, you are probably right if the goal is to keep the Soviets resilient even after a very bad 1941/spring 1942. But I think we are touching on the old subject of where do we draw the line of Soviet resilience? Should the players abilities be leveled artificially to get most games to drag on beyond 1942 or not leveled to model RL and reward the best players? I was reading an old forum thread on this yesterday, they were discussing about the snowballing effect that would have using dynamic national morale levels determined by positions on the map instead of using fixed values going up or down with the years. Of course there were strong advocates for both point of views.

Railyards multipliers are IMO part of the same philosophic questions. Honestly, as a member of this WitE community I wouldn't be able to vote one way or another, because I can understand both point of views, after all we play WitE for fun, we are not students from a military academy, and I'm very much a team player from this point of view. But still, as a matter of personal preference, I would prefer WitE to be more simulation than game.

And I strongly suspect that in RL, if the Germans had captured Moscow and Leningrad, reached the Volga, and then captured Stalingrad, there would probably have been big political turmoils in USSR, which wouldn't have been very good for the health of the Red Army at all levels, resulting in the same kind of desintegration that happened to the Russian Imperial army in WWI.

[morvael]

Yeah, not enough rail capacity is a problem. It's all WAD, but the multipliers may be a bit too low (this sadly has to be determined by people playing the game). On the other hand it was a goal to finish the ability to resupply armies of any size, every turn, along the entire front. Sometimes you have to pause to let the system catch up (as units will stop, supplies will build up and need will lessen).

I wonder what are other people's numbers at this point in the war?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: morvael
It's all WAD, but the multipliers may be a bit too low (this sadly has to be determined by people playing the game).

I do not agree it is a problem of multipliers. If you raise the multipliers and the Axis do not do as well in 1941, Soviet rail supply will be in effect limitless. If you do not raise the multipliers and the Axis do too well you get this situation. The only way you can accomodate both the games in which the Axis do well and do not do well is adding off-map railyards.