Greenland Problem

[MrLongleg]

After Denmark fell I sent a German Garrison to Greenland, now an event triggered that made it a protectorate and my Garrison disappeared. I think that event should not trigger if Greenland is actually occupied. The US would have to declare war and conquer the place, right?

[BillRunacre]

Thanks MrLongleg, I can see the issue and apologies to your Garrison who went AWOL.

[Taxman66]

So, what should have happened?

[BillRunacre]

The event shouldn't have fired.

[Zorch]

Historically, didn't the German weather people on Greenland contract trichinosis and have to be evacuated?

[Taxman66]

There were multiple groups sent at different times, iirc from looking it up.
Some were captured, some got sick and surrendered, etc...

I would hope that there would be some kind of alert for newbies to warn them. Something along the lines of 'The US is unable to declare Greenland a protectorate due to occupational forces.'

Heck it was a surprise to me that Germany could use the ports in the first place. That is completely unhistorical.

[Leadwieght]

I have sometimes sent German Garrisons to Greenland. My experience has been that if the US is still neutral when the Greenland-Occupation-by-US script fires in Spring 1941, the Greenland ports will become (neutral) US territory and any German units will be repatriated (usually to Norway).

Mr Longleg, did you check to see if you have an extra unit sitting in Norway somewhere, or possibly in Germany on the North Sea?

BTW, this resolution seems a reasonable simulation of the actual scale of forces it would have been possible to send to Greenland from Germany. Basically, what we're talking about is a small, weather-watching contingent which would have to evacuate if the US had permission from Denmark's government-in-exile to station troops there.

Incidentally, if the US has entered the war by the time of the script, the script will fire, but German unit(s) will not be repatriated and the German play can continue to occupy any ports that he has garrisoned. Not sure how this fits with the actual scale of forces, but I like preserving some of the more exotic alt-history possibilities, so I'd say let it stand.

So maybe this is WAD?

[Taxman66]

Bill just said (post #4) that the event shouldn't fire if Germany sneaks a unit into Greenland.
I disagree with that from a historical perspective.

[PJL1973]

I'd argue that any German units near Greenland should make the US angry, due to the Monroe Doctrine. The effect should be at least as great as an attempt at Sealion.

[TheBattlefield]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I disagree with that from a historical perspective.

It is really difficult to force an event for historical reasons in the far north despite strategic intervention by the Axis powers and at the same time to admit German tanks in Moscow, right?

[Taxman66]

On what basis do you believe that german forces would've just been allowed there uncontested. Or to even use their ports and facilities without incident.

[elxaime]

I'd agree Greenland needs to be looked at.

Right now, it is possible for the Germans to declare war early on Denmark, as has happened in November 1939 in a PBEM I am in. Greenland, as part of conquered Denmark, immediately went Axis. In PBEM, the Germans had a unit in transit which landed and occupied it. The USA received a one-time mobilization shift. But further post-1939 Allied event decisions, I assume, are now disabled.

Per the Wiki, during WW2, the USA was determined early on to keep Greenland out of the war, opposing even occupation by the UK, Canada and even free Norwegian forces. Greenland was part of a 1920 treaty that invoked the Monroe Doctrine. It also had cryolite mines.

IMO a one-time mobilization shift, while nice for the USA, doesn't adequately capture the consequences of an Axis military occupation of Greenland. Also, the shift of Greenland to Axis control upon conquest of Denmark seems to overstate the amount of actual control the Germans would have had from long-distance. The "conquered and occupied" Iceland Government, in real life, retained enough autonomy to eventually enter in the deal allowing USA forces in.

Not sure where the best balance would be. But this situation seems to have slipped through the cracks.

[sPzAbt653]

The article states that Greenland became a formal U.S. protectorate in 1941, but that after Denmark's occupation the United States maintained neutrality and still preempted British-Canadian plans for the island. Therefore, does it seem reasonable that for the game, Greenland would go to the US upon Denmark's occupation ?

[Philippeatbay]

Greenland was a big empty place with a population of less than 50,000.

So anybody could go in there and do anything they wanted, and there simply wouldn't have been anyone around to stop them.

Greenland probably didn't even have or need a full-time police force, let alone a military.

So a destroyer's shore patrol would significantly overpower anything it encountered (besides raising the population of any town it visited by ten or fifteen percent).

[Taxman66]

Conversly, that is also an argument against eing allowed to resupply and repair U-boats.

[Sugar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol

Greenland had some impact on the Battle of the Atlantic with losses on both sides.