Determine who a minor surrender to issue.

[Lothos]

When a country surrenders the code determines what unit is in the capital to determine who they surrender to (I believe).

I just saw a game where Germany took Athens but the Greeks surrendered to the Italians.

[Hubert Cater]

The code looks for the current control ID of the capital, e.g. if the last unit in the capital was German, then it should surrender to Germany, but a unit does not necessarily have to be there etc.

The only things I can think of is maybe the capital moved to a hex that was controlled by Italy? Or perhaps a scripted surrender event took place?

If not then I'd have to see a turn where this would be repeatable to better understand what might be happening.

[Lothos]

The code looks for the current control ID of the capital, e.g. if the last unit in the capital was German, then it should surrender to Germany, but a unit does not necessarily have to be there etc.

The only things I can think of is maybe the capital moved to a hex that was controlled by Italy? Or perhaps a scripted surrender event took place?

If not then I'd have to see a turn where this would be repeatable to better understand what might be happening.

Greece does not have an alternate capital.

Germany took Athens with an armor corp

Greece did not surrender at the end of the turn

Germany moved the armor corp out and put an Italian corp in Athens

Greece surrendered at the end of the turn to Italy

[Taxman66]

Thats how it works.
Italy owned the hex (Athens) at the time of surrender.

If you pay close attention (and looked under the unit) you would see the Italian national flag before the turn end/surremder occurs.

More typically this issue happens all in the same turn. Say a GE unit moves into and throigh a vacant(or unit destroyed capital). Then an IT moves into the capital hex later in the turn. The cointry will surrender to Italy.

It is based solely on the last unit to occupy/move through the capital hex.

Been like this forever, and discussed numerous times in the past.

[Lothos]

Thats how it works.
Italy owned the hex (Athens) at the time of surrender.

If you pay close attention (and looked under the unit) you would see the Italian national flag before the turn end/surremder occurs.

More typically this issue happens all in the same turn. Say a GE unit moves into and throigh a vacant(or unit destroyed capital). Then an IT moves into the capital hex later in the turn. The cointry will surrender to Italy.

It is based solely on the last unit to occupy/move through the capital hex.

Been like this forever, and discussed numerous times in the past.

Italy did not own the hex, Germany did as they where the one that took it initially.

Just because a unit moves in after the fact does not mean ownership of the hex would change if the previous owner is on the same side.

If that was the case then an Italian player could make a wall of Italian units and march through Poland, France and other places Germany has conquered and change who controls the hex.

[BillRunacre]

Just because a unit moves in after the fact does not mean ownership of the hex would change if the previous owner is on the same side.

Yes it does, providing the occupied resource belongs to a non-surrendered country.

Once it has surrendered, it remains under the tutelage of whoever it surrendered to.

[Lothos]

Just because a unit moves in after the fact does not mean ownership of the hex would change if the previous owner is on the same side.

Yes it does, providing the occupied resource belongs to a non-surrendered country.

Once it has surrendered, it remains under the tutelage of whoever it surrendered to.

So how does it handle in Russia? If what you are saying is correct then even if Germany is advancing if there was wall of Italian units behind it, they could simply take control of the hexes away from Germany, so they get the production.

Just seems wrong, a hex should not change ownership if someone on the same side moved into it.

[Hubert Cater]

This is just how the game engine works, until a country surrenders or is liberated, whomever occupies or controls a hex owns it. You'll see this throughout, e.g. think of D-Day where there is a mix of UK and US units, hex control is fluid until France is liberated.

In the USSR (anywhere really), it would be the same, e.g. if Italian units are also advancing there, they could gain control over previously controlled hexes by Germany, and vice versa.

[Lothos]

This is just how the game engine works, until a country surrenders or is liberated, whomever occupies or controls a hex owns it. You'll see this throughout, e.g. think of D-Day where there is a mix of UK and US units, hex control is fluid until France is liberated.

In the USSR (anywhere really), it would be the same, e.g. if Italian units are also advancing there, they could gain control over previously controlled hexes by Germany, and vice versa.

This causes unforseen side effects.

For example when Italy surrenders you end up having what appears to be random hexes in Russia that end up being Allied control and sometimes cut off supply for German units and forcing the Russian front to collapse (which makes no sense).

I never realized what was going on but I saw it, the only work around I found was to not have Italy go to war with Russia.

IMO this is a bug, whoever moves into the hex first gets control of it should be the rule. Changing the controller back and forth should not happen (as I mentioned the reason for unforeseen side effects)

[Hubert Cater]

The alternative would not be without potential criticisms either, e.g. where there is fluidity on a front with two or more majors from the same side, it can literally look like a mess of hex control if we went with whomever controls it first maintains control.

Think of North Africa with German and Italian forces fighting together, D-Day, even Axis Greek campaign to a degree, e.g. does a stalled Italian offensive there maintain Italian control over any captured hexes once the Germans move in to finish the job?

There are pros and cons to any design decision, and with this one, you are correct, if Italians withdraw from the war, any of their controlled territory is lost and can see a potential collapse in that front, but this would be no different than anywhere else Italians and Germans would be fighting (or any combined majors fighting together on a front), e.g. this could happen in North Africa as well if the Italians and Germans are still fighting there and Italy were to surrender early, and even if Italians had full control (e.g. first control) of any hexes there before the Germans enter the front.