14.2.1.3 Catastrophic Events

[dr.hal]

Looking at the section of the manual concerning "Catastrophic Events", I wonder what the details are and if any players have any deeper understanding. It says "in the course of a repair....." and "during any repair...." such an event might occur that would result in the destruction of the ship under repair. I read that as stating that, first the ship has to be under repair and second, that it is a ONE time dice roll per "repair". Now does that mean the die is rolled every turn for each ship under repair for every turn under repair or that it is rolled ONCE during that repair cycle (until repairs are "complete"?) for each ship. Clearly the manual is not totally informative and forces one to speculate as to the chances of such an event occuring (which admittedly are very low, BUT!). If it is once for ever turn for each ship under any forum of repair during that turn, then it can become a significant figure over the course of the war.... If that's the case, even sending a ship into stand down mode to repair a "1" point systems problem involves a small risk of that ship being destroyed. Does anyone on the forum have any insight (note, NOT speculation, but actual insight)? Has this happened to anyone while playing a game? Under what circumstances?

[RangerJoe]

I have had a tanker underway get on fire and then it sank . . .

[Don Bowen]

I do not recall the exact implementation of this "feature" but it is intended to reflect accidents occuring during any repair. A welders torch starting a fire, a crane dropping a heavy load onto (or though) the ship, a major whoops while unloading ammunition, some minor electrical repair causing a generator to short out, overheat, and start a fire, all the way to something drastic, like the Stewart falling off the blocks in a drydock. To quote a very-cleaned-up expression from my navy days: feces occurs and occasionally it is unusually maloderous. The original expression frequently included a reference to exactly how this particular load of feces compared to some odiferous nastiness.

Almost all of these accidents will merely result in more damage to the ship. How much is determined by a dice roll and can be minimal or potentially be massive. If the original damage plus the added damage from the "accident" exceed 99%, the ship is destroyed.

I personnally believe that occurrences of operational or repairing damage are far lower than reality but too much reality here would hinder game play. Just enough to keep it interesting and it always, always, happens at the wrong time.

[Kull]

Oh yes, one of the most famous cases of this was the luxury liner SS Normandie which was being refitted as a troopship in New York. It caught fire at the dock, capsized, and was ultimately scrapped. I may have one in-game example, although the damage was not extreme (will look for the save game and report back)

[RangerJoe]

The Normandie

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/no ... -1.2103184

Then a little more recent bunch of fires . . .

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/bonhomm ... edy-fires/

[LargeSlowTarget]

There is a very very small chance that a ship under repair may explode - think spontaneous magazine explosion on Mutsu. Never seen it. I have had ships hitting uncharted rocks and sink.

[Wirraway_Ace]

LST beat me to Mutsu.


I have no idea how the game generates these event. They are good color, when they happen.

[Kull]

Three AVDs start their conversion in Sydney on 3/20/43. Note the damage is fairly similar. I also highlight the repair yard usage, because - on further review - there may be something else going on here:

[Kull]

One day later, and we see there's a noticeable disparity between Hulbert's damage and that of the other two. However, in that same period, the repair yard became "overloaded". Since Hulbert doesn't have extra damage, but simply shows a slower rate of damage removal, it's probably not due to the "small chance of repair damage" algorithm. Oh well!

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

I do not recall the exact implementation of this "feature"

Thanks Don for keeping the discussion on topic and I'm sorry to hear that you don't recall the details!!! I certainly understand what this concept is supposed to reflect in real life (as I've noted in another thread, my grandfather almost lost his life while working on the USS Constellation in the Brooklyn Naval Yard due to such an "accident") as accidents or simply dumb moves happen. I also realize it's rare, I just thought someone might know a bit more around the parameters the game uses to assess such things, especially how often the "dice are rolled" so to speak for any given ship under repair. Again, from what I read, it's ships "under repair" not steaming along or as a result of battle damage (unless it's undergoing repair of that damage!). And I agree, the instances of such events seem to be VERY rare indeed, far below the actual events during the war, much like aircraft training accidents in which pilots are casualties in the game vs. actual statistics of the war records.

[Kull]

I recall reading in one of the Dev Threads that the original algorithm was much more accurate, but that some playtesters were appalled at the in-game results, so it was significantly reduced.

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: Kull

One day later, and we see there's a noticeable disparity between Hulbert's damage and that of the other two. However, in that same period, the repair yard became "overloaded". Since Hulbert doesn't have extra damage, but simply shows a slower rate of damage removal, it's probably not due to the "small chance of repair damage" algorithm. Oh well!

Interesting Kull, it might be the result of the APA's being moved into the shipyard repair by the game due to the fact that both were automatically approved for an "upgrade" which the player (You) allowed, meaning they are moved into the shipyard by the program, whether there's room or not (I've had this happen to me MANY times).

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: Kull

I recall reading in one of the Dev Threads that the original algorithm was much more accurate, but that some playtesters were appalled at the in-game results, so it was significantly reduced.

Do you mean the original algorithm concerning "Catastrophic Events"?

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

ORIGINAL: Kull

I recall reading in one of the Dev Threads that the original algorithm was much more accurate, but that some playtesters were appalled at the in-game results, so it was significantly reduced.

Do you mean the original algorithm concerning "Catastrophic Events"?

Yes, that is correct

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Kull

One day later, and we see there's a noticeable disparity between Hulbert's damage and that of the other two. However, in that same period, the repair yard became "overloaded". Since Hulbert doesn't have extra damage, but simply shows a slower rate of damage removal, it's probably not due to the "small chance of repair damage" algorithm. Oh well!

Looks like the shipyard gave it a "stacking" penalty! [:D]

[RangerJoe]

Those APAs don't need to be in the shipyard at all. Those AVDs can get out when the floatation and engine damage major reach 5 or less on both.

[CaptBeefheart]

Don: Thanks for the explanation. This kind of color helps make the game great. We'll be sorry to see you leave this forum.

On the above repair example, I've always thought it would be nice if ships would automatically go to pier mode if shipyard mode doesn't help (like the APAs above). Anyway, something for WITP2.

Cheers,
CB

[Erik Rutins]

I know Don is giving away his books, but I don't recall reading that he's leaving the forum. Did I miss something?

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Those APAs don't need to be in the shipyard at all. Those AVDs can get out when the floatation and engine damage major reach 5 or less on both.

You know RJ, I'd always heard that, but in my game it seems to be very arbitrary. For example, here's a closer look at APA J. Franklin Bell. No pierside repair option. And it gets weirder.....

[dr.hal]

Not that I'm aware of Erik, you might want to PM him. Hal