tiemanj (A) vs njp72 (J) - Allied AAR

[Bif1961]

Early Allied strategy, hit them where they ain't and stay out of the way of the KB.

[tiemanjw]

For the last several days, a naval battle has been raging off Legaspi. Boise and 3 Dutch CLs have been taking on multiple IJN surface TFs (including BB Mutsu, 2 CAs, and a few CLs) and at least 2 invasion forces. The fighting opened with B17s landing 2 hits on Shoho, though it appears only causing light damage. The cruiser force moved in and engaged multiple IJN surface forces for a few days, but couldn't break through to the landing forces. Tonight thy manage to get into the landing beaches and rough up a few transports - but nowhere near enough. B17s manage to hit another, but alas, he gets 4 units ashore (plus the paras that took the base a few days ago to provide CAP for the landing).
Now though, I've spent my surface force. Boise and Tromp each have about 50 sys, plenty of flood and some engine damage (and Boise is still on fire), though should be able to make wherever they need to go so long as they don't get hit again. The other 2 Dutch CLs have life left (but no ammo). I'd like to save these ships if at all possible as they have skyrocketed experience, but I can't figure out where to go.

[BBfanboy]

Don't plan on repairing damage until you get far away. I would try Balikpapan for fuel, then Melbourne or Sydney.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Don't plan on repairing damage until you get far away. I would try Balikpapan for fuel, then Melbourne or Sydney.

Luzon is an island of green in a sea of red. No friendly land until Townsville or Cape Town. My plan was to fight them until spent - I'd written them off long ago. Boise is spent. I'm just hoping for just a bit more magic from her.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Don't plan on repairing damage until you get far away. I would try Balikpapan for fuel, then Melbourne or Sydney.

Luzon is an island of green in a sea of red. No friendly land until Townsville or Cape Town. My plan was to fight them until spent - I'd written them off long ago. Boise is spent. I'm just hoping for just a bit more magic from her.

I don't think the game models purposeful ramming - you can only accidentally ram your own side's vessels! [8|]

[tiemanjw]

I don't think the game models purposeful ramming - you can only accidentally ram your own side's vessels!

[:(]

[adsoul64]

Great AAR, as an Allied player I guess you're doing an excellent job vs. a very competent player. In any case you're getting the first Allied goal: don't get discouraged [&o]

[pontiouspilot]

I would try to run all the supply and any other surprises you can into the Phil and Singapore while he is tilting at windmills elsewhere. Sooner or later he MUST double back and clear these out. One great surprise is to sneak some Banshees or for that matter SBDs back into the Phil. There are many places you can dance them around to and they can cause a lot of damage. It also goes without saying that your CVs should be causing lots of mid or north Pacific distraction if you know KB safely out of your hair elsewhere. I have burned down several northern Japanese cities with old battleships in Feb '42 where KB off arrogantly playing elsewhere. Loko?? did a VERY successful carrier raid in same time frame against northern Japan.

[tiemanjw]

Great AAR, as an Allied player I guess you're doing an excellent job vs. a very competent player. In any case you're getting the first Allied goal: don't get discouraged

Thanks, but I'm not so sure about that. He landed at Surat, now loosely surrounding Bombay. And I also see recon of Karachi now. I don't think I have enough AV there if he brings the house.

I would try to run all the supply and any other surprises you can into the Phil and Singapore while he is tilting at windmills elsewhere. Sooner or later he MUST double back and clear these out. One great surprise is to sneak some Banshees or for that matter SBDs back into the Phil. There are many places you can dance them around to and they can cause a lot of damage. It also goes without saying that your CVs should be causing lots of mid or north Pacific distraction if you know KB safely out of your hair elsewhere. I have burned down several northern Japanese cities with old battleships in Feb '42 where KB off arrogantly playing elsewhere. Loko?? did a VERY successful carrier raid in same time frame against northern Japan.

Already done in the PI, but it is nearly impossible to get anything more in. Just too many bases to pass. The Banshees did get a few transports, including an LST. But he is now well established at Legaspi. I caused some problems, but it is now time to turtle up. I do have level 5 forts at Clark, so that should help some. As for singers... if I can get the 2 surviving dutch DDs over to it (from the PI), I'll raid P-bang when I see tankers there.

At this point, I think it is a Norpac Easter. Though the 27th has a little more in mind than a CV raid. I need to pull the KB from squatting off Karachi. I have the reinforcements waiting in Aden and the surface forces to force them through. I just don't have anything approaching adequate aircover if the KB is nearby.
I nearly got them through a few days ago while he was at Surat, but alas, I chickened out at the last minute when he took the base (freeing his CVs). Good thing I did.

[adsoul64]

Already done in the PI, but it is nearly impossible to get anything more in. Just too many bases to pass. The Banshees did get a few transports, including an LST. But he is now well established at Legaspi. I caused some problems, but it is now time to turtle up. I do have level 5 forts at Clark, so that should help some. As for singers... if I can get the 2 surviving dutch DDs over to it (from the PI), I'll raid P-bang when I see tankers there.

Well, I don't want to go in depth for I'm reading njp72 AAR too, but I'd be careful with reinforcing areas that are lost in long terms. Banshee are OK because they will be withdrawn anyway IIRC but if you're not playing with Auto victory you could hold on saving the all important B-17, P-38 etc. and training pilots. My guess is you're playing with the old map so Aden and Abadan are connected are you?

[pontiouspilot]

I'm a contrarian to Adsoul's views. Tell me what you have for forts/supply/AV in Sing & Clark? (I always make my stand in Manila).

If heading north start your scouting early on. There are a couple quick patrol boats with good endurance on west coast/Alaska that I use. Frankly, 8/10 they can scout within 6 hexes of Sendai without ever being spotted. My experience is that most Japanese players neglect search assets in this part of world early on. In the one game I sent 2 CVS along for air cover only for the BBs who did all the damage. I loaded CVs with only fighters. In the end all TFs got in and got out without ever being spotted. In the Loko?? raid I recall that his carrier planes sank a lot of shipping...all I did was burn cities down. If it doesn't bring KB home do it again!!

[tiemanjw]

Well, I don't want to go in depth for I'm reading njp72 AAR too, but I'd be careful with reinforcing areas that are lost in long terms. Banshee are OK because they will be withdrawn anyway IIRC but if you're not playing with Auto victory you could hold on saving the all important B-17, P-38 etc. and training pilots. My guess is you're playing with the old map so Aden and Abadan are connected are you?

New map, so they are not connected. Would be easier if they were. The KB sits off the Arabian coast waiting for me to blunder into him.

I was talking more about supply, not units that matter. I did put in a few good pilots for some CAP traps into the PI, but otherwise everything there was restricted and started there or withdraws. I just want him to take as long as possible.

[tiemanjw]

I'm a contrarian to Adsoul's views. Tell me what you have for forts/supply/AV in Sing & Clark? (I always make my stand in Manila). If heading north start your scouting early on. There are a couple quick patrol boats with good endurance on west coast/Alaska that I use. Frankly, 8/10 they can scout within 6 hexes of Sendai without ever being spotted. My experience is that most Japanese players neglect search assets in this part of world early on. In the one game I sent 2 CVS along for air cover only for the BBs who did all the damage. I loaded CVs with only fighters. In the end all TFs got in and got out without ever being spotted. In the Loko?? raid I recall that his carrier planes sank a lot of shipping...all I did was burn cities down. If it doesn't bring KB home do it again!!

I don't think the 2 views are mutually exclusive. There is a lot of stuff in the PI that either withdraws or is restricted there. You can build a significant defense without reinforcing. IRL they held out until May despite all the success of the IJA elsewhere.

Clark - Forts 5 (x3 terrain), about 30k troops (stacking limit is 40k) - 712 AV.
Manila - Forts 3.42 with 127 engineers building to 4 (x2 terrain). 23k troops - 703 AV.
Bataan - Forts 3 (x3 terrain), 25k troops (SL 45k) - 166 AV
Supply is a bit north of 25k between the 3 bases and about 2k around the north (small garrisons to prevent his damn paradrops)... so not much to mess around with.


My challenge is to make him pay at Manila, but not have the retreat overstack me at clark.

Thinking aloud here, perhaps I can pull back from Clark, then rotate them in from Bataan once he takes Manila.



As for up north, I don't want him to start suspecting anything. I have a few subs looking for search planes. I don't want to send surface ships because I think that would tip him off. At any rate, it won't matter... he either reinforced quickly early on (no sigint on that having happened) or he hasn't. If he hasn't, I'll gain a foot hold in the Kuriles. At that point he can either come home, or face 4Es over Hokkaido. Just need to wait for the PPs to buy out the necessary units.

[Macclan5]

Limited counter attacks may be possible in the Philippines as a possibility ?

I suppose that it depends upon which hex (s) he has stacked up.

In the PI the longer you hold out a few more reinforcements arrive. I recall GMC armored units (or some such thing). A vet of the board can correct me here on OOB.

However if the seeming strategy is to wait you out to burn supply there may be a few hexes where you can attack / make Japan retreat / and inevitably get some little supply from the hex and the added benefit of no over stacking penalties.

At least in the PI you have 3 perhaps 4 hex directions to counter attack in as opposed to Singers where it is literally "one direction" only.

[pontiouspilot]

You do have big gonads!!....I like!!....the plan that is. I would bet you a good bottle of scotch that it's safe to do a surface scout. Send a couple other places also so he thinks part of general lunacy versus any real planeg Wake/Kwajalein etc. I just don't find that subs scouting tell you much about naval search...tells you whether he has ASW at patrols.

[tiemanjw]

3/24/42

Bad news first. India is still a mess. I need to get the Aussie 7th there, as well as their support units (plus fighters, recon A/C, some bombers would be nice, etc). I tried to move in a week ago, but he hid the KB up off Oman. He hit a pair of British BBs. They need work, but will be ok. The transports we a day behind and were never even spotted.
I did finally get a British cat squadron. They landed safely at Socotra a few days ago and are assembling now. I am desperate for naval search in this area.



Good news, operation Pin Wheel has commenced. Johnston Island has been retaken. Currently all assault and surface combat shipping is returning to Pearl. In the days leading up, I have noted several instances of heavy radio traffic at Truk and Kwajalein. I suspect a mini KB or similar is at one of these 2 places. To that end, Enterprise and Yorktown have taken station west of Johnston in case he rushes in. Hornet will join them in about a week. Next up is Canton. Baker and Tarawa have troops prepared as well, but those are on hold for now.

Planning for Operation Wheatgrass is in full swing. Details to follow, but hoping for kickoff in about 2 weeks.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Limited counter attacks may be possible in the Philippines as a possibility ?

No... attacks use up too much supply. The only thing I want the Philippines to do is cost him time. Losses he can afford, so no point in making it quicker for him. Let him break down the forts.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

You do have big gonads!!....I like!!....the plan that is. I would bet you a good bottle of scotch that it's safe to do a surface scout. Send a couple other places also so he thinks part of general lunacy versus any real planeg Wake/Kwajalein etc. I just don't find that subs scouting tell you much about naval search...tells you whether he has ASW at patrols.

They seem to do ok. They are giving me an idea where the KB is. Also, he appears to have good search in the South China Sea, Yellow Sea, and near southern Japan. Nothing yet up north. He probably has something, but not as much as he should.
I really don't want him to do anything there yet. The nearest AF (bigger than size 1 - which can't launch attacks) is Bihoro.

I want him to see nothing. Crickets. Until it is too late for him to do anything.

[tiemanjw]

Operation Wheatgrass:

Here is my current plan for Operation Wheatgrass. The objective is to seize 2 Kurile Islands in an effort to force him to respond. Once the islands are seized, most combat forces will be withdrawn. Once he gets serious about retaking them, what can be saved with subs and float planes will be.
In order to get the KB to respond, 2 CVs will remain in or near the op area. If he uses surface only forces, the CVs can move in. Should the mini KB show up, my CVs should be able to inflict significant damage to them. A 3rd CV will support the initial phases.
In addition, phase I will also occupy Attu, Adak, and Cold Bay to build up an air bridge to fly forces in from North America.
Phase II will liberate Amchitka. I'm not thrilled with this last part, but I need to kick the op off shortly, and the Amchitka force won't be ready for about a month.
Phase I will launch in about 6 days.

13 TFs will participate in the operation
TFs Rhino (Lex & Sara) and Badger (Hornet) will provide air cover for the Kurile and Aleutians
TF Tiger (2 CAs) will bombard Amchitka to suppress the air field.
SAG TFs Deathstalker (2 CAs) and Black Mamba (3 CLs) will cover the invasion / occupation forces
SAG Lion (DDs) will screen the Kurile forces

Fast Transport Beatle 1 will bring engineers to Attu in advance of Beatle 2 (Attu) and Honey Bee (Adak). Nothing special is planned for Cold Bay, just a base force to provide AV support for transiting A/C.

TF Spider will carry the Kurile forces where it will split into Tarantula (Assault Onnekotan), Black Widow (assault Shaukotan), Wolf Spider (followup forces for Onnekotan) and Redback (followup forces for Shaukotan).

Air support will be mostly from CVs. Each CV will have:
1 VF (27 A/C)
1 VMF (18 A/C)
1 VS (18 A/C)
1 VB (18 A/C)
1 VT (15 A/C)

A few Cat squadrons will be flown to Attu and supported by AVDs

P40s will be flown in once air fields are established.

Land forces include 2 regiments of the 27th Division, 53rd Sep Inf Rgt, and some defense Bns for muscle. Each base will get a base force with AV support and engineers. Onnekotan Jima will also get a CB Bn some costal guns and the 14th MAG.

Land forces are staging at Pearl and San Fran. The 2 forces will rendezvous NW of Midway Island and begin run in. They will split in the north Pacific about 200 nm west of Attu for their targets.


Any thoughts from the crowd?

[pontiouspilot]

Do we know where the IJN CV TFs are? ...where and when we last knew.

Subject to above I like it. What can be done to push back in the India or SoPac time zone in conjunction with the above?