Matrix Games Forums

Should AA do anything in land combat when air attack is used?

I would assume so...just like if you try to soften up a target but I have noticed that it will never shoot down a single air unit.

I have just tested 8 attacks on a single hex with 6AA and never did a single air unit get shot down...
NO matter HOW bad the odds that should not happen.

Yea it should work. Works by the same principle as AA on land.

It's the same mechanism as the AA on land.

Well others can test...but it does not appear to work.

I have tested and never seen a single air unit shot down by AA.

Should be shooting down tons of air...especially early.

Quick way to reproduce...

Start 1939 game, any.
Germany Turn 1...move all units away from Danzig so they will not cause a ZOC.
Move a single division into Danzig.
Declare war on Denmark.
Redeploy 6 AA from anywhere in Germany.

Allies Turn 1
Move two Polish corps next to Danzig.
Move a few other Polish units into Germany to take some territory to redeploy the UK bombers.
Move 2 UK bombers to Denmark to be redeployed to be in range of Danzig.

Germany Turn 2
Deploy 6 AA in Danzig

Allies Turn 2
Move UK bombers to Poland / German territory captured by Poland

Germany Turn 3
End turn

Allies Turn 3
SAVE game so you can perform the test multiple times.
You can do two things here.

Option 1.
Set all bombers, 2 UK and 1 Polish to support
Attack Danzig 6 times with the Polish forces.
Outcome
You will see 0 air shot down 100% of the time.

Option 2
Ground attack the unit in Danzig with the 3 bombers.
Outcome
You will lose multiple bombers, likely 1 per attack.



Overall...I did 3 tests of each.

Option 1
First test 0 bombers lost.
Second test 0 bombers lost.
Third test 0 bombers lost.

Option 2
First test, 7 bombers lost.
Second test, 13 bombers lost.
Third test, 12 bombers lost.

Clearly
AA is not supporting the defending units.

They take hits. I just tested the 1944 scenario. They just don't take them often.

Usually the land unit lowers the effectiveness.

Western Allies lost 4 air attacking all land units not on cities

On cities they take more due to the AA in the city

You only lose if the unit defending has built in AA...and from time to time you will lose 1 air.
I believe that the land attack is not taking into account AA in the hex, just the AA value of the unit being attacked.
So a unit defending in a hex with 6 AA and a build in value of 1 should have 7 AA...
But in combat they appear to have just 1 AA.


Try the 39 scenario...and you have to attack with land units and air in support.
Took me 2 minutes to set up and I just keep loading it to prove they won't lose more air.

So you will always take 0 hits.

I have attacked city with AA...and they take 0 hits as shown above.
0 losses.
Please just run the 39 test...you can attack 10 games in a row...and you will not have the losses expected.

I did and you don't lose any. It's rare. I will look again. It's the same system since the start.

Rare?
I tried 20+ attacks...0 air loss.
6 AA x 20 attacks, 50% chance to "hit", average would 60.
So you are saying the air has 60 "saves"?
That is not rare that would be impossible.

When I attack the hex directly with air it is rare to not lose an air unit.
I think 1 out of 12 attacks an air unit was not lost.

I still believe it is ignoring the AA and just using the "unit" AA value.
And yes this has always been the case but I never paid attention because honestly it is rare to attack a hex directly with land that contained AA until the Russians and Allies reach Germany.

And sadly few games go that far.

To check, you need to bomb a cavalry unit of '39 that does not have its own air defense
Then ground-based air defense shoots down the bombers

Thanks Topolm...I forgot they have 0 AA defense.


My test was against a 1939 German division...and never did they shoot down an air unit. That is more luck overall...then again they only have 1 AA.
But the 6 AA in the hex should be at least shooting down something.

It consistently does if you just bomb the unit.

Al did you happen to find anything around this yet?

Something is definately not right.

I have not looked yet since I can't update the game for another several months.

AlvaroSousa wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 1:47 pm I have not looked yet since I can't update the game for another several months.

No worries I trust you will check when you can.

I just want to be sure it gets fixed for WP II