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HOW is it that the Axis can get oil from Iraq and Persia without any trade routes being required yet the Allies have to spend 1000's on merchants to get anything from anywhere?
What am I missing? I guess they could use Russia for Persia...but there is NO way Iraq oil can get to Germany.

Not sure how I have missed this all this time.

I see the trade route goes to Istanbul then it "vanishes" and goes to no where...then appears by magic in Bulgaria.

If I recall correctly, it was actually going by sea through the Persian Guld and then the Atlantic.

I remember playing the Allies a while ago and having patrol groups on convoy lanes (as anti-sub bonus) and noticing the turn after Irak became Axis that my DDs positioned on the convoy raided... German MMs!

I also remember noticing it as well as the Germans (but I closed the convoy immediately as Germany could lose all its MMs this way quite fast ).

stjeand wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 5:45 pm but there is NO way Iraq oil can get to Germany.

I've often wondered if the Axis could have ever made much use of captured Middle Eastern oil other than locally or in denying it to the enemy. The most efficient way to move oil overland is by pipeline and there were oil pipelines at the time that ran west from the Iraqi oil fields to the Levant. However, I have no doubt that the British would have trashed these completely in the face of an Axis advance. Even if captured intact somehow would the Italian merchant marine have had the tanker capacity to run the oil back across the Mediterranean to Europe proper? A good portion of the Italian cargo fleet got stranded outside of the Mediterranean basin when Mussolini impulsively declared war with no way to get back in. As it was the remaining Italian merchant fleet was barely able to keep the Afrika Korps & Co. going.

There is an invisible route at Istam. The oil situation is tricky in the Middle East for the Axis.

I have to find a new way to handle it.

Well here is what I see.

It hits one hex on the Arabian sea trade route. That can be attacked by the UK navy....then goes rail through Iraq and Turkey...Turkey...then over a road to Bulgaria...

Honestly the Axis should NOT get any oil from the region OR if they do it should have to go through the Med.

They really had no way to get it to Germany. Just keeping it from the Allies should be reason enough to take it. That is a big deal.

You are correct.

i dunno

wasn't turkey axis leaning?

boldairade wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:21 am wasn't turkey axis leaning?

Despite trade with Germany in raw materials like chromium, neutral Turkey walked a strict diplomatic tightrope between both sides. The memories of the Ottomans' disastrous involvement in World War One were too fresh and the still recovering Turks weren't interested in another multi-front war. The only viable method of transporting unrefined oil through Turkey was by rail tanker cars and the rail and rolling stock in a rural nation like Turkey was probably not up to the job and the remaining links in Iraq would likely have been destroyed by the Allies.

Given scorched earth tactics you have ask what kind of recovery time it would take to make it all worthwhile for industry. The one decent oil field the Germans captured at Maikop in Russia was so badly razed by the retreating Soviets that despite a lot of effort by German oil technicians its production was minimal, amounting to around 1,000 tons from November 1942 to January 1943, which was only used locally for transport purposes.

Largely true

But as you say, Turkey continued trade try Germany

If Germany had taken the Middle East it’s VERY likely Turkey would have become much more likely to cooperate on some level with the axis.

And saying there was no infra structure or not enough is not really definitive. Not to mention not really what WP is ultimately about.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion. But I think the way the game models it is pretty reasonable and ultimately just fine.

For me...the one big piece overall is the trade route is illegal.

It uses one hex of road. No other country can use roads for trade.

Move the trade route to the med requiring 75 MM and I am fine with that. Then they can at least be bombed..
They only have 1 hex that you can attack the route and a few air units make that impossible to attack.

Giving Germany basically 2 unattackable trade routes, Sweden ore in the winter...and Middle East oil is a bit to much.

And to be honest I play Germany the most out of any games...and I think it is a bit to much.