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Wondering what to do with the Italians early in the game, before the fall of France ?

Move assets to North Africa to pre-place them for free ?
Other ?

I am building lots of Marine division and Small Infantry corps to protect all the ports that are unprotected.

I am doing similar to ncc1701c, including moving infantry around by rail to put them in defensive positions. Note that the French Alps are impassable for both sides, so you can use one of those small corps to garrison Genoa. I turn off reinforce/upgrade and put all I can on garrison duty.

I usually build one or two marine divisions and transports. First use is to take that port in Greece but later it gives the Italians the flexibility to strike anywhere in the Mediterranean if UK doesn't garrison every port. The treat is better than the result.

why did you guys build marines? i can't really see a use for them.

i understand they get less disorganized on a landing. but they are smaller and weaker than mountain or even regular corps.

vs any kind of opposition they seem to wilt.

it would seem more sturdy infantry formations are better?

Italians... It doesn't matter what you do with them, but building their own native Infantry to protect themselves is a bit a waste unless you're going to pack 'em in there. Using her Navy and building Marines? I don't see any use in that. Their Mnt. Inf are almost worth it. Her Navy is too small unless it's free in the Atlantic and with the Kriegsmarine and or has a ton of air cover to be useful. If Greece is a available she helps with that. Best thing you can do also is not try to lose her later in the game which can be a challenge.

You can go multiple routes with her. Build a bunch of CAS and support Germany. Build a Bunch of Armor and use them(though her armor is inherently worse than the Germans by XP) Really it's a Big Romania with an achilles heel, too much real estate that will let her surrender. Early on she is can help with Barbarossa or vs British. Later on she can defend less valuable sectors.

Italy = Germany's soft underbelly and oil drain! I think her NM should go up a tiny bit she is a little too easy to KO!

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar



Italy = Germany's soft underbelly and oil drain! I think her NM should go up a tiny bit she is a little too easy to KO!

No easier than it was in real life

ORIGINAL: boldairade

why did you guys build marines? i can't really see a use for them.
i understand they get less disorganized on a landing. but they are smaller and weaker than mountain or even regular corps.
vs any kind of opposition they seem to wilt.
it would seem more sturdy infantry formations are better?

They make a good budget unit for opportunity amphibious attacks to cut supplies or seize an undefended port. They only require one Landing Ship like a division but have higher Firearms and Defense factors. That along with the bonuses of less damage in invasions makes them a handy unit to keep around. For the Axis having one or two across from England helps keep them honest with defending there ports. A couple defending Italian ports frees up other combat units and maintains a threat against everything in the Mediterranean. For the UK they serve a similar purpose. Keeping 2 or 3 in Russia, one up north and 2 on the Black Sea ensures that the German's waste troops covering their rear. Also can make a quick end run on Finland if you want to knock them out of the game.

Divisions could do the same job in most cases but the Marines can do it a little better. For the Russians who don't have divisions it is a good budget unit for this threat.

Italy needs to talk Germany in to helping them take Gibralter and or malta then they can breath a little easier. I usually avoid greece and send Italians to Russia or go all in in Egypt

Is attacking Yugoslavia in 1940 (with German assistance) a viable strategy? Perhaps with help from paratroopers, if France falls relatively early? I do realise Hungary and Romania don't go Axis until November, but is it still viable to go for Yugo before then? The Italians should be able to shutdown the only port the Allies could send reinforcements through.

After several games, I must admit I have difficulties with Italian production. I am under impression I am losing tons of manpower by waiting enough PP to build something nice.

Any tips from experts would be welcome.

Italian Production is terrible!

Therefore don't repair ships, disband it's fighter, and it's combat aircraft if you're that troubled. Don't use it's Air Craft for fighting the British unless you are also adding in the Germans(the Italians cannot afford to be drained this way)

Train the Italians vs the Russians. Build Mnt Infantry or Armor Mech and research those techs. Augment it's Production with German Production and use it's Manpower. Use German Infantry Corp on it's Surrender Cities rather than it's own and use Italian Corp elsewhere on low important ports you want to still keep.

By Barbarossa it's possible to have 3 Armor/1 Mech and Messe commanding with 2 CAS in support. Plus enough Infantry to protect from a weak Italian Invasion. You would need Germans to cover the rest...

During '42 if the British don't fight you, you can add 3 or so Mountain Corp and perhaps several more small Inf Corp. Use these to plug gaps, knock out Partisans and garrison the world. Italy is weak as hell but she can be useful(also send your excess gasoline to them from Germany so you don't lose any) She can utilize it then! Never lead with the Italians(remember to lead with the German Generals) Unless of course you get Messe way up there!

P.S. Do NOT upgrade any of it's Small Corps you don't expect will defend real objectives!

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

After several games, I must admit I have difficulties with Italian production. I am under impression I am losing tons of manpower by waiting enough PP to build something nice.

Any tips from experts would be welcome.

If you want to keep the Italian tactic air units, dont make the mistake to swicht them to Naval Air. Due their low experience, the naval air factor will not increase. The only useful tech for them is the Detection & Electronics one. With only the '40 level those planes will have range 14, something that will allow them to have a better coverage of the Med (you can cover al the coast from Tobruk to Alexandria with an unit deployed in Rhodes) or will be able to aatack the artic convoy lane from Norway that is 12-13 hexes away from the coast.

ORIGINAL: malkarma

If you want to keep the Italian tactic air units, dont make the mistake to swicht them to Naval Air. Due their low experience, the naval air factor will not increase.

I did already. [:(]

ORIGINAL: malkarma

If you want to keep the Italian tactic air units, dont make the mistake to swicht them to Naval Air. Due their low experience, the naval air factor will not increase.

Well it will, if you research a few levels first, no?

Barely due the diminishing return or experience and effectiveness, and will take time. I want the Italian planes useful in 1940 not in 1942...but this is my personal taste.

Move assets to North Africa to pre-place them for free ?

Hi scout1,

I noticed that doing this (i.e., with transports) did not use any oil. I suppose this is what you mean by "for free".

If so, why is that? Is this WAD until Italy joins the war?

C

I don't find the Italians completely useless...this is where I use them...

Marines are size 10...smaller units are better in Africa due to limits on supply. They are a little pricy but a cheaper way to invade also since they are size 10 you don't need to spend another 25 on landing craft.

The fighter...GO TO USSR. It is better than the USSR fighters and will do well growing...but prior travel to France with your bombers and make the Battle of Britain happen. More training.

Mountain corps are great...LONG to build and expensive. But definitely the best units that have since they do not need oil.

I am currently playing around with their cavalry...not great but fast, cheap and no oil. Good for surrounding units in the USSR.
I would rather build them then their base infantry for the movement but they are susceptible to air so be careful.

I actually switch all my bombers to naval air and focus on it in tech. Why? Why not...there is little else...and if you can catch a UK fleet...

Just have to get them trained up. Losing 2 exp to switch...so what. That comes back easy.

Thanks stjeand, but do you know if the movements of Italian units are supposed to be 'free' in that no oil is used until they enter the war?

C

Not that I ever knew of.

Armor / Mech / air moving will use oil.
Units not on rail will use oil.


First thing I do as the Italians is get all my infantry on rail and I do NOT move my air or armor except by transport.

They will run out of oil fast.