Matrix Games Forums

Recently started playing MWiF (which I hope is the acronym for the Matrix game) after a 20+ year hiatus from the board game version. I’m wondering about the wisdom of building the Italian synth oil? In my first kick at the can I saved BPs from the start and got the Libyan plant. I did find the oil helpful for re-org, which in turn gave me more comfort using oil units aggressively. However, it did put a crimp in early air builds and dissuaded me from building CVs - Italy stayed neutral until mid 1940 so no trade agreements with Germany to compensate. I’m not convinced the reorg value was worth the build constriction, so I’m wondering about the opinions of others.

PS - never built it in board game WiF previously

I've never build the Italian Synth. Nor Italian CV's. I rather like to have a nice Italian air force as soon as possible. Land based air is so good in the Med. The Italian NAV are quite good if you combine them with long range FTR's from Germany (and of course the 6 range Italian one).

The two box is good enough for the Italian fleet if they've got planes covering them.

Centuur wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:36 pm I've never build the Italian Synth. Nor Italian CV's. I rather like to have a nice Italian air force as soon as possible. Land based air is so good in the Med. The Italian NAV are quite good if you combine them with long range FTR's from Germany (and of course the 6 range Italian one).

The two box is good enough for the Italian fleet if they've got planes covering them.

I’ve not seen anyone build it in the AARs either. The cost and save & build time makes a for a tight window, and does indeed prevent the building of air.

Thank you for your reply.

I've seen the Italian synth being built twice in AAR.

I would consider building the Italian synth if it were not for the 10 BP version with a fixed hex.

Orm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:28 am I've seen the Italian synth being built twice in AAR.

I would consider building the Italian synth if it were not for the 10 BP version with a fixed hex.

Yeah, I wasn’t happy to pull that plant. One can ensure the 8 pointer if built in ‘39 as the 10 pointer enters the force pool in 1940, but after that you roll the dice.

You should always get to choose. They are supposed to be separate force pools, just like FTR2 and FTR3.

paulderynck wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:18 am You should always get to choose. They are supposed to be separate force pools, just like FTR2 and FTR3.

My recollection was not getting a choice, and in fact, being unable to build the 8 pointer when I had saved the 8 build points (Italy stayed neural until mid 1940) because the 10 point built was in the force pool, which forced me to wait an additional turn to construct.

Now, this happened a few months ago, and my recollection is not always the greatest and it’s also possible I missed the option to choose as I certainly messed up some of my interactions with the interface at various point in my play.

paulderynck wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:18 am You should always get to choose. They are supposed to be separate force pools, just like FTR2 and FTR3.

Yes. That is how it should work. At least in my humble opinion.

However, that is not how it work in MWIF. (Baring recent change)

Saskgunner wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:47 pm

paulderynck wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:18 am You should always get to choose. They are supposed to be separate force pools, just like FTR2 and FTR3.

My recollection was not getting a choice, and in fact, being unable to build the 8 pointer when I had saved the 8 build points (Italy stayed neural until mid 1940) because the 10 point built was in the force pool, which forced me to wait an additional turn to construct.

Now, this happened a few months ago, and my recollection is not always the greatest and it’s also possible I missed the option to choose as I certainly messed up some of my interactions with the interface at various point in my play.

Your recollection is correct.

There is one other place that MWiF gets force pools wrong: CAs and CLs should be in separate force pools. If they were, people might actually build CAs.

Courtenay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:19 pm There is one other place that MWiF gets force pools wrong: CAs and CLs should be in separate force pools. If they were, people might actually build CAs.

Now, I might be mistaken (because this is something which was decided a long time ago), but I always thought that this question had been asked during the development of MWIF and the answer from ADG was that both CA's and CL's should be in the same force pool.

From the WiF 7 scenario booklet:

24.1.5 Sorting out the counters
Sort your units into force pools. Each major power needs a separate force pool for each unit type. So, you need one each for CAV, INF, MIL, GAR, MOT, MTN, MAR, PARA, MECH, ARM, HQ-A, HQ-I, SUB, CL, CA, BB, CV, TRS, AMPH, Convoy points, FTR, LND, NAV and ATR.

Note that CLs and CAs are two different force pools.

The rule is clear and unambiguous; it was just never coded into MWiF.