Matrix Games Forums

First, I would like to know whether my mates and I are right, because re-reading the rules I am not so sure.
We have played that GE can declare war on USSR if GE+ Minors + Italy have enough garrison. It seems to me that Italy should not be included. From RAW:

You may break a neutrality pact, any turn after the calendar year following its signing, provided you have at least a 2:1 garrison ratio on your common border.

Garrison values
'You only count the garrison values of your land and aircraft units (including those of your aligned minors) on the common border with the other major power. If you don’t have a common border, you can’t use garrison ratios to break the pact.

Who is "you". It may be understood as GE (+ underlings) or GE+minors+Italy if both declare war simultaneously. It would seem here that IT is not included, like I believe MWIF does.

If so, how does MWIF handle this? The Neutrality Pact info seems to show only GE info.

If Italy doesn't count, I kind of recall that in this version of the game Italy can declare war at any moment, if so...

A unit only has a value if it is face-up and not in the ZOC of a unit it is at war with.

If Italy declared war earlier and had USSR units within IT units, these USSR units wouldn't count as garrison, am I right?

Joseignacio wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:13 am If Italy doesn't count, I kind of recall that in this version of the game Italy can declare war at any moment, if so...

A unit only has a value if it is face-up and not in the ZOC of a unit it is at war with.

If Italy declared war earlier and had USSR units within IT units, these USSR units wouldn't count as garrison, am I right?

The answer you got on io.groups still applies here.
Yes Italy can separately DoW the USSR anytime.
No their units do not count for garrison.

I do not understand that last sentence, but if you mean Italian units ZoCing USSR units in the common German-USSR border, that cannot happen because if Italy is at war with the USSR, Italian units cannot be in that area.

Well, yes, I asked in both places, because of time requirements for my current game. We will play again tomorrow or the next day.

And of course the question there was both for CE and FE

BTW there is another minor bug I havent reported, just in case someone is interested. Although the game seemed (havent checked throruoghly) to stop IT units to land move to the Neutrality Pact hexes, it let me send one IT unit within the area through Air Transport.

Before or after war between Italy and USSR? Before is OK, but they don't matter a lot unless both can DOW on the same impulse. Germany must still break the pact with it's own or German minor allied units, but If Italy can get units there and declare war at the same time as Germany, then that can be powerful, for example build lots of Italian air and have them declare war and take an Air impulse at the same time Germany takes a Land.

Interesting. Before. But IIRW the game didn't let me move IT units by rail to the Neutrality pact fringe nor maybe even on foot either.

Edit: Checked, I can move on foot and by rail, so it should be ok.

In one game - over the board, not MWiF, and before the rule that Italy could only choose its pre-1939 possessions as a new home country when Italy got incompletely conquered - I used Italian units to liberate Lithuania, which then became aligned to Italy. So when inevitably Italy got incompletely conquered, I made Lithuania the new home country for Italy.