Dick Winters and His Views on Leadership

[KG Erwin]

I'm currently reading Dick Winters' memoirs, "Beyond Band of Brothers", and it so happens that his views on combat leadership coincide with my opinions on how these little pixallated soldiers oughta be led.

Now, there's a vast difference in the real thing vs our virtual world, but the basic principles still apply. Put simply, it's just to do everything in your power to get your men through the battle without unneccessarily endangering their lives.

I know you tire of hearing about it, but some of you are veterans, or have friends and relatives you are/were combat vets.

Yeah, it's just a game, but it represents something more, at least to me. My DARs/AARs illustrate this, but after hearing stories from guys who went through the real thing, somehow I can't take it too lightly.

Back to Mr. Winters for a moment -- he's now 88 years old, but the experiences he had as a twenty-something company commander never left him. He keeps a list of the men he trained with at Camp Toccoa, and he looks at this list each day. Many have since passed on, either during or after the war. In his wonderful book, he brings these men back to life. In his mind, they are still in his everyday thoughts.

As a gamer and amateur historian, I too think of these men, and thousands more like them. When I play SPWaW, I try to keep this in mind, and not dismiss them as toys we can randomly sacrifice at our whim. Doing this dishonors their memory. That's the way I feel about it.

[PimpYourAFV]

In total agreement, to heartlessly send your cybersoldiers to their deaths carries a greater consequence than just a costly victory. There is the story of one German teenager who played Starcraft and enjoyed sending massed waves of marines against his enemies continually wearing them down. He usually won but at such a cost that his karma caught up to him and he was run over by a train when wandering drunk one late night. Another player again in Germany with a similar playing style was chewed up by dobermans after a long LAN gaming session with his buddies.

The most astonishing case was a South African who also enjoyed massed wave attacks at great cost during various war games online was actually targeted by another online player with the bucks to back up his high morals. The vengeful cyberangel had the South African's home address attained through an email hack and then hired a paramilitary group to attack him during his sleep. The 'victim' apparently was both a light sleeper and a champion pistol & shotgun competitive shooter so two of the hitmen were killed while the other two were ordered at gunpoint to strip and perform a Starsky & Hutch dragon ceremony. The video of the dragon ceremony was posted on a peer-to-peer file sharing site. That said, it is unlikely anyone on this site has the skills to take down a paramilitary squad in his sleep so it's better we all just keep our casualties to a minimum. [:-]

[azraelck]

I eat paramilitary squads and crap out Sherman tanks. I am the Goddamned Batman!

One of my main goals is to reduce the number of my casualties to a minimum. That's why I have a tendancy towards massive amounts of artillery and a more defensive-minded approach towards achieving the objectives. Especially in defensive positions; I can achieve a decent kill to loss ratio; my best was only 13 dead to nearly the entire enemy force downed.

[KG Erwin]

Dick Winters earned a Distinguished Service Cross for his actions as a company commander on D-Day. I think his opinions deserve some respect.

Too bad some of my fellow forumers have no clue about the concepts of respect and honor.

[Orzel Bialy]

Glenn, you had to have known you would get some sort of "response" from our friend of the forum.

Do yourself a favor and place him on IGGY...that way you don't see his reply just his name. [8D]

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

Glenn, you had to have known you would get some sort of "response" from our friend of the forum.

Do yourself a favor and place him on IGGY...that way you don't see his reply just his name. [8D]

Yes, Orzel, I did that already.

[azraelck]

My post was in direct response to TBT's. This is why I don't block view of someone's posts; you can't always see whats going on. My disrespect wasn't aimed at Winters but at TBT. If you don't like it, feel free to block me as well.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

My post was in direct response to TBT's. This is why I don't block view of someone's posts; you can't always see whats going on. My disrespect wasn't aimed at Winters but at TBT. If you don't like it, feel free to block me as well.

No, my friend. I wouldn't do that. In my years of being a member of this forum, I've only invoked the "ignore" button once.

[IBTyrone]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
No, my friend. I wouldn't do that. In my years of being a member of this forum, I've only invoked the "ignore" button once.

I know you weren't trying to be funny, Glenn, but I got a chuckle out of that one.

[Svennemir]

Too bad some of my fellow forumers have no clue about the concepts of respect and honor.

New here? Welcome to the Internet.

[PimpYourAFV]

Wow. I responded by agreeing with the thread starter and backed him up with some interesting stories I read in a newspaper article and still all the usual miserable hatemongers are here grunting, farting and trading despair with each other. This seems to be the pattern whenever I dare to post something interesting that jolts the trolls from their stupor of boredom. Go ahead and do the girly ignoring thing if that helps your fragile minds.

Oh! we must keep the forum boring and dull or Erwin and Ken will get so angry. [&o]

[BulletMagnet]

Really ? Must you continue to emulate your hero Haig by ALSO being a jackass?[>:]

[azraelck]

At least he doesn't run and hide like a craven coward; like his hero was noted as doing. Of course, there's a big difference between people mocking him for making up a story to help further his self-proclaimed martyr status and the stench and filth of trenches and barbed wire overflowing with rotting carcasses and bullets filling the air so much that they blot out the sun.

[Orzel Bialy]

Gentlemen,

Whatever he may be posting please don't allow the topic to be altered to center on him...it's what he seemingly craves. So let's all do each other a favor and don't allow the focus of the thread to revolve around him and his antics... but rather let us stay on the topic of the thread.

If you can't resist sharing your views (both pro and con) on any of his statements then start another thread or send him PM's instead.

Now back to Dick Winters...

[BulletMagnet]

[Orzel Bialy]

[:D]

[KG Erwin]

Let me quote this one passage from the book:

"I truthfully never wavered as to whether or not I would succeed in combat. I was far more concerned for the safety of the men entrusted to my command. Any success I had as a battlefield commander was based on character, detailed study, and taking care of those troopers."

I heard this man's voice, speaking as an old soldier in the BoB Documentary, and I can hear him saying this. Who wouldn't follow a man like this into battle? You can ridicule me as a fanboy, but I think it's awe-inspiring.

[azraelck]

I seriously doubt anyone; whether or not they have any inkling of military strategy or history; would say that they would not follow a commander who took those words to heart.

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: azraelck

I seriously doubt anyone; whether or not they have any inkling of military strategy or history; would say that they would not follow a commander who took those words to heart.

That's what was so great about Damian Lewis' portrayal of Winters in BoB -- that's the way he really was. He was the quintessential good soldier, and got the job done. These are the guys that routinely get overlooked, as they are not colorful characters. There were thousands more, just like him, who quietly did what they had to do in Europe and the Pacific.

[azraelck]

The vast majority were ignored. Unless you were a major commander, or did something so extraordinary that they have no choice; the media isn't going to care.

The sad thing is; I have never seen Band of Brothers. I need to just buy the damn thing on DVD one day. At least I know it's name though. Most movies and shows I see, I can't remember what they're called.