EXTRA: MacArthur's PT Boats Wipes Out the Kido Butai

[sanch]

*** News Flash *** Jolo, PI, Jan 1, 1942 ***
Last night, in a fierce nighttime engagement, a flotilla of General MacArthur's gallant PT boats under the command of LTJG CI Kingman dealt a stunning blow to the evil Japanese Empire. Kingman's PT boats put two flattops and a battleship out of action and scored numerous other hits. And they did so with absolutely no damage nor casualties to themselves. "It was the perfect encounter" said Kingman in an interview this morning.

The War Office, in its typical terse style, issued the following Combat Report:

---------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat near Jolo, at 38,59

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi, Shell hits 8
CV Kaga, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1
CV Hiryu, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Soryu
CV Shokaku
BB Hiei, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 3
CA Tone, Shell hits 4
CA Chikuma
CL Abikuma
DD Akigumo
DD Kagero
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 1
DD Shiranuze
DD Urakaze

Allied Ships
PT PT-31
PT PT-32
PT PT-33
PT PT-34
PT PT-35
PT PT-51

---------------------------------------------------------------
*** End of Transmission ***

As a newbie playing my first campaign as the Allies against the AI, I was thunderstruck by the outcome of this battle. I sent the pt boats in figuring (a) they're stuck in the PI and will never get out, and (b) if they do anything at all, it'll help down the road. And what happened - a strategic victory of the first water! Amazing!

[Tankerace]

Well, I would do 2 things.

1) Condone it as a bug,
2) Award a crapload of Congressional Medals of Honor.

[dtravel]

I believe Kid has said that 1.3 will address this already.

[2ndACR]

Now where did we put that thread for these results. Didn't some of us get shouted down when this happened? I seem to remember something about it.

[Honda]

Yeah? I have a feeling PTs can bombard factories. In numbers, they can wipe out everything of value in a good task force. I test played the Marianas scenario and lost 6 BBs to, drumrole... PTs! Then again, there was some 15 TFs of them...
New Jap strategy: go for PTs early on. They are ireplacable, unlike those cheap cruisers or carriers. So, by '44 when you are forced to commit, you encounter only 100 (instead of 200) PTs and old CA/CV types thus increasing your odds of wining that battle from 1:100 to a staggering 1:90! By 1950 you're joining the Korean war. On the Northern side!
But that's an entirely different issue. Maybe I should post it. An early cold war pacific theatre, SSSR, Mao, Kim and Hirohito v. ANZUS, PI, Kuomitang and European colonial powers. That's what I call a "what if"! Taaaaankerace...

[Erik Rutins]

Yep, in 1.30 this will be a thing of the past and you will have 1.30 very soon, most likely Monday night.

Regards,

- Erik

[Honda]

Who needs the patch. I'm way past having to play the game. Scavanging the forum for ideas and plotting devious plans is all I need now. And beer!
Thanks.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Now where did we put that thread for these results. Didn't some of us get shouted down when this happened? I seem to remember something about it.

Yeah, really. Amazing how this was actually being argued as realistic![8|]

[Captain Ed]

Don`t you remember McHales Navy Ernest Borgnine and Tim Conway sank the entire Japanese navy twice over[:D][:D][:D]

[cyberwop36]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yep, in 1.30 this will be a thing of the past and you will have 1.30 very soon, most likely Monday night.

Regards,

- Erik

So are PT's going to become completely useless? Will they have any chance of scoring any hits? If so, why not remove them from the game?

[everyone can fire on me....NOW] I kind of liked the detterant to sailing heavy TF's all over the board willy nilly with no chance of getting spanked. It would be nice if a inferior force got the drop on a over confident enemy sometimes [like 3% or something].

If someone is dumb enough to put his CV's somewhere PT's get a shot at them he should pay the price and quit whinning.

PT's only have a range of 3 or 4 hexes if you can't find a way of dealing with them you should lose.

I'd hate to see this game become formulmatic. Where I know if I put together a surface or air TF a certain way I know it's unbeatable.

One of the funnest aspects of the game for me is the unpredictablity of combat. Like real war. Superior force does not garuntee victory.

Guess I won't be patching.

[Nikademus]

They wont be useless. They will just tangle more with the escorts of a TF now vs always tangling with the high value ships, regardless of the DD escort you assign.

Tests gave back very favorable results.

[cyberwop36]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

They wont be useless. They will just tangle more with the escorts of a TF now vs always tangling with the high value ships, regardless of the DD escort you assign.

Tests gave back very favorable results.

Cool,I haven't been following the debate. I'd hate to see this game turn into a war college exercise where the answer to threat A is always response B and you can't lose.

Please keep some unpredictibilty in the game. Unexpected results happen in war, time and time again.

[freeboy]

surprised I haven't seen any whining about the "congressional"
It is actually "The Medal of Honor" often mistaken for that other medal the;" The Liberal Wanker Medal of Cowardice for Betraying your Country During time of War" or "LWMCBCDTW"

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: cyberwop36

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

They wont be useless. They will just tangle more with the escorts of a TF now vs always tangling with the high value ships, regardless of the DD escort you assign.

Tests gave back very favorable results.

Cool,I haven't been following the debate. I'd hate to see this game turn into a war college exercise where the answer to threat A is always response B and you can't lose.

Please keep some unpredictibilty in the game. Unexpected results happen in war, time and time again.

Predictability should be governed by the players, not capability bordering on fantasy.

[freeboy]

when totally unrealistic things happen only the sympathetic are to blame

[JohnK]

So are PT's going to become completely useless? Will they have any chance of scoring any hits? If so, why not remove them from the game?

They weren't all that amazingly useful in the real war, given the resources devoted to them.

They had relatively few kills of even Destroyers, much less anything bigger.

Good for interdicting Japanese barges.

[pad152]

Ok, now we know why Japan doesn't get more than 5 PT boats, other wise they would have won WWII[;)]

[JohnK]

Well, went through at Nihon Kaigun.

American PT Boats in the entirety of the Pacific War managed to kill the amazing total of two and one half Japanese Destroyers. (2 kills for which they were solely responsible, and one kill of a DD that had already been crippled by aircraft bombs.)

That's it for kills of anything DD or larger in terms of warships. No cruiser kills. Large numbers of them whiffed completely on the Fuso and Yamashiro at Surigao Strait.

They simply weren't that useful. They shouldn't be killing large Japanese warships with anything remotely approaching regularity in WITP.

No idea what their kills were of PCs and MSWs were. I'm sure higher. They're real role was in the "little war" against small convoys, barges, etc. Thing about PT Boats is they're one of the US weapons, like the B-17, that got good PR.

[Twotribes]

No one argued it didnt happen, the arguement was that you shouldnt put your High priority ships in close proximity to shore where PT are with out a surface fleet to protect them.

If a PT boat fired a torpedo at and hit a carrier, it would be just as devestated as if some other ship did it.

Also the arguement was that PT boats should be immasculated , which fortunately hasnt happened.

I hate to tell you but even with the fix, if you send a carrier into close with out escort a PT boat will be able to torpedo it, as I understand it, the fix makes it so the escorts attack the PT boats.

Once again, it is how you the player, chose to use your forces.

[BaitBoy]

I have never been able to win such victories with my PT boats. I have, however, lost PT boats to 14 inch shells.[X(]

I know it is too late to do anything about it for 1.3, but if PT boats are getting looked at for 1.4 please take a look at this!