Respawning of Carriers in RHS: Cured

[el cid again]

::In my 4.46 medium term game, USN lost 6 (of apparently 6) big carriers in 1942 - to only
Junyo for IJN - in an AI vs AI game.

ALL SIX are back in the game - that is - are on the list of ships under construction.
Theoretically this isn't supposed to happen if you fill up the slots used by AI for ships.
Maybe it does not use a slot? That is, maybe it just changes the date of the OLD slot - and
copies Essex data into it?

In a human game I would not use such a replacement ship. But if AI is playing - it will use them.
Of course - you are not supposed to use AI as Allies anyway - it not being bright enough to manage them
well.

Still - I am surprised to see them. Since RHS has ALL the carriers in it - the only way to get more is to transfer one from the Atlantic. I suppose we might change the name of a new ship on Atlantic side and send her over - just to irritate the enemy - but really - free replacements? I don't really like it - and if I can understand it - I will prevent it.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

In my 4.46 medium term game, USN lost 6 (of apparently 6) big carriers in 1942 - to only
Junyo for IJN - in an AI vs AI game.

ALL SIX are back in the game - that is - are on the list of ships under construction.
Theoretically this isn't supposed to happen if you fill up the slots used by AI for ships.
Maybe it does not use a slot? That is, maybe it just changes the date of the OLD slot - and
copies Essex data into it?

In a human game I would not use such a replacement ship. But if AI is playing - it will use them.
Of course - you are not supposed to use AI as Allies anyway - it not being bright enough to manage them
well.

Still - I am surprised to see them. Since RHS has ALL the carriers in it - the only way to get more is to transfer one from the Atlantic. I suppose we might change the name of a new ship on Atlantic side and send her over - just to irritate the enemy - but really - free replacements? I don't really like it - and if I can understand it - I will prevent it.

This is exactly why I did not bother to fill up all the slots to "prevent respawning". There are just way too many undocumented elements within the editor to even bother with. Complete waste of time and bloody frustrating.

[barnacle bob]

What about in the "class section" moving the Essex to a differant slot and leave the old Essex slot empty. If a CV respawns it should respawn as nothing.

In a mod I made for myself I moved the Essex and replaced it with the Midway. The lost CVs will respawn as Midway class CVs in late 1946 (I accelrated the arrival date and my mod goes well into 47).

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: el cid again
I suppose we might change the name of a new ship on Atlantic side and send her over

Although intended for the Pacific to begin with, the USS Gambier Bay (sunk at Samar) was commissioned USS Midway. The superstitiously-unlucky name change was made when the powers that were decided the name Midway warranted a more substantial bearer.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: barnacle bob

What about in the "class section" moving the Essex to a differant slot and leave the old Essex slot empty. If a CV respawns it should respawn as nothing.

In a mod I made for myself I moved the Essex and replaced it with the Midway. The lost CVs will respawn as Midway class CVs in late 1946 (I accelrated the arrival date and my mod goes well into 47).

I like it. Will see. It probably also messes up the resize routine too. That depends on Essex being in its slot. I like this a lot.


By respawning as Midways - you get these ships years sooner than history - and you get up to six of them (only five were even planned). This you do on purpose?

[witpqs]

You just gave me a thought about CVL Hermes - I wonder if slot has to do with it resizing (from 12 planes to 4) on the second or third turn of a scenario? Minor issue - not worth much time and trouble.

[barnacle bob]

Resizing? Are you talking about air groups?

[Monter_Trismegistos]

El Cid, Seems that you have screwed with 9999ing some slots. I would check all the spacers which probably are in RHS ship database.

Have you lost any other nominally respawning ships? Minesweepers? Cruisers? Are they respawning?

In my own mod only two ships are now respawning, and no more. One is a CA, and other is actually a Japanese MSW respawning into allied slot. So I know that Japanese slots are filled properly but I was unable to track 2 incorrectly filled allied slots (but frankly I stopped searching for them)

[el cid again]

Yep. And nope. Hermes is victim to rezizing because it is a CVL. To avoid it -
don't let it stay at its command base. It will never resize UNLESS it is there.

CV air groups are similar - and so are even the semi-carriers. However, the US ones
cannot resize by WITP standards because they have the wrong names. By starting
a name with USN instead of VF, VT etc - we prevent the routine from understanding what
units to resize to the peculiar US rules. Still - ALL CVs will resize if at the command base -
just not the shift from 4 to 3 squadrons - and later back to 4 different squadrons of USN
CVs. Strange rule.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

El Cid, Seems that you have screwed with 9999ing some slots. I would check all the spacers which probably are in RHS ship database.

I wonder? Do you mean that a comment should say "9999" in the delay field?

Have you lost any other nominally respawning ships? Minesweepers? Cruisers? Are they respawning?

Not that I see. I am getting landing craft to report early - and PT boats. This was lost in CHS due to slot changes. I moved some into the right slots - and they now appear. I don't like the rule much - but you cannot carry them as cargo so I live with it. Not sure how to know if they respawn? Got to track a sunk one I guess.

In my own mod only two ships are now respawning, and no more. One is a CA, and other is actually a Japanese MSW respawning into allied slot. So I know that Japanese slots are filled properly but I was unable to track 2 incorrectly filled allied slots (but frankly I stopped searching for them)

There are apparently two dead Allied slots. If you put something in them it won't work - so I have them labeled "BAD SLOT" in caps. Maybe those are they?

[barnacle bob]

Yeah..that one messed me up.

[el cid again]

There is something called

Lost CV Respawn Area in CHS -

and I never took it out in RHS!

This area is NOT present in stock though. I wonder if it matters?
Anyway - the blank slots in the CV area - ten of them - probably are what is being used.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Free slot = ship will respawn there.
I don't think that this Lost CV respawn area does matter at all.

1. What slots are those BAD SLOTs? I searched CVO 4.46 and found only one such labelled (4200). What is the second one?
2. Why are those slots bad? What is happenning to ships in those slots?

As I see you didn't corrected all Soviet Navy errors: (based on RHSRAO)
*incorrect names of minesweepers (T-xxx instead of TShch-xxx) and subchasers (B-xxx instead of BO-xxx)
*some of their subs have Dutch instead of French nationality. Is it on purpose (or they should all be French?)
examples slots: 9439 9440 9443
*subs S-52 and S-53 are ready from start of war, while they were not completed yet - should arrive later.
*S class is still called Stalinets.
Are you ever going to fix it?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Free slot = ship will respawn there.
I don't think that this Lost CV respawn area does matter at all.

1. What slots are those BAD SLOTs? I searched CVO 4.46 and found only one such labelled (4200). What is the second one?

REPLY: The first (4200 probably) is labeled as such in WITPExcel - and I don't know why. I found another one - and should have labeled it as such. The one I found seems to be unable to accept data - that is no matter what you tell it data wise, it has its own impression - and changes it back. Possibly my "BAD SLOT" got changed in this way too! Don't remember the number.

2. Why are those slots bad? What is happenning to ships in those slots?

As I see you didn't corrected all Soviet Navy errors: (based on RHSRAO)
*incorrect names of minesweepers (T-xxx instead of TShch-xxx) and subchasers (B-xxx instead of BO-xxx)

REPLY: We have a problem with length of names at the moment (WITP II may give us a longer reporting window) -
so adding Shch is not a good move just yet. But no reason not to add O to make BO.

*some of their subs have Dutch instead of French nationality. Is it on purpose (or they should all be French?)
examples slots: 9439 9440 9443


REPLY: Naw. That is our wonderful editor doing its thing. A shift in field values - particularly by only one - is pretty common.

*subs S-52 and S-53 are ready from start of war, while they were not completed yet - should arrive later.

REPLY: WHEN do you think they arrive? I think I used Conway.

*S class is still called Stalinets.

Yeah - I know. It is in the standard international reference on Submarines I use that way. Also in USN material.
There is also a US S class - and it might be confusing. But I believe in international relations - so if you like it - I will change it. Maybe to S Class (Soviet)?

Are you ever going to fix it?

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

In my 4.46 medium term game, USN lost 6 (of apparently 6) big carriers in 1942 - to only
Junyo for IJN - in an AI vs AI game.

ALL SIX are back in the game - that is - are on the list of ships under construction.
Theoretically this isn't supposed to happen if you fill up the slots used by AI for ships.
Maybe it does not use a slot? That is, maybe it just changes the date of the OLD slot - and
copies Essex data into it?

In a human game I would not use such a replacement ship. But if AI is playing - it will use them.
Of course - you are not supposed to use AI as Allies anyway - it not being bright enough to manage them
well.

Still - I am surprised to see them. Since RHS has ALL the carriers in it - the only way to get more is to transfer one from the Atlantic. I suppose we might change the name of a new ship on Atlantic side and send her over - just to irritate the enemy - but really - free replacements? I don't really like it - and if I can understand it - I will prevent it.

Sid, would you PM me the Scenario files only which you are talking about? I got a no-respawn to work for me by filling up all the slots.

One possibility: did you fill up EVERY space with 9999? This must include spaces with headers in them for instance if a space has the header "ALLIED CVs" but no delay of 9999 then it WILL become a respawn slot.

EDIT: Also I remember doing a little bit more than simply filling the slot name and delay fields. I think I put in a ship class (I used PT) and I also put a "nationality" (I used US Navy for the Allies)

[Monter_Trismegistos]

When I look at this you did not changed any of the errors I was pointing before... Seems that many of them are waiting since 2.X version.

S-52 - commisioned 430609
S-53 - commisioned 430130

Old ones:

1. Class 1585 (Leninet):
a) Name should be changed to Leninets (as last cyryllic sign in their name is in English transcribed as ts), or even better "L (proj. XI/XIII)"
b) To few torpedo tubes, ships of "L class proj. II" had 6 torpedo tubes, proj. XI and XIII had 8 torpedo tubes (6xF 2xR). There is no need for averaging them as all Far East ships were of 2 latter subclasses.
c) They were capable of carrying 20 mines, not 28 as in RHS. -
d) Are you sure that they should have better manuv. than S-class? These were large and not so new minelayers...

2. Class 1588 (Stalinets):
a) Name should be changed to Srednaya, or even better "S (proj. IX-bis)". Since later names of types were no longer named after ships but after its size (Srednaya means medium) and name Stalinets was already used by ship of another class (L2), thus it was NOT POSSIBLE to name this class Stalinetz.
b) Wrong number of torpedo tubes. Should have only 6 (4xF 2xR).

3. Ship 3893 Raztoropny:
a) Should be named Rastoropny - this is most common version of its name in English.

4. Ship 3813 Baku:
She was on Far East from commisioning (401211) until leaving to North fleet in late 1942. Its arriving date (420915) in not correct. She was leaving theater on late 1942, not arriving - change its start date to 411206

5. Ship 3418 Tibilsi:
Incorrectly named as Tibilsi, should be Tbilisi

6. Ship 4106 Revnostny:
Commissioning date: 411214

7. Ship 4115 Razyaryonnyi:
a) Should be named Razyaryonny (to keep consistent with style in which other ships names are transcribed into English)
b) Commissioning date: 411214

8. Ship 4320 Razyaryonny:
Ship doubled with 4115

9. Ship 4227 Vnushitelnyi:
a) delete it, it was commisioned 471229. (I know you wont do this [:D])
b) at least name her Vnushitelny to keep her name consistent with others.

10. Ship 3586 Radyashtchi:
Should be Razyashchy.

PS. Could you tell me why name TShch-271 is too long? There are longer names in game...

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

There is something called

Lost CV Respawn Area in CHS -

and I never took it out in RHS!

This area is NOT present in stock though. I wonder if it matters?
Anyway - the blank slots in the CV area - ten of them - probably are what is being used.

Woops, just saw this post. YES! EVERY SLOT MUST BE FILLED IN A NON-RESPAWN, NO EXCEPTIONS.

[el cid again]

Monter: I probably forgot.

ALL the changes - except the dates for the S52 and S53 - are ALREADY done - except the names of the PT boats - which are not going to work at this time.

I will do the two dates now.

I also found a number of other Soviet issues - and then someone put me on to a minelaying problem with a sub class - and I found it also present on the DLs and a class of DDs - all already fixed.

I am collecting stuff like this for a micro update which will be called 4.48 - which I will release tomorrow before going to work. I am going to issue my standard starting turn at this level.

Today I did a pwhex update - aside from technical changes - I am trying to help the pathfinding program.

Maybe some of these changes got lost? I remember doing some of them. Sometimes older files get in place of revised ones - for reasons I don't always grasp. So I have to fix it again - drat.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: el cid again

There is something called

Lost CV Respawn Area in CHS -

and I never took it out in RHS!

This area is NOT present in stock though. I wonder if it matters?
Anyway - the blank slots in the CV area - ten of them - probably are what is being used.

Woops, just saw this post. YES! EVERY SLOT MUST BE FILLED IN A NON-RESPAWN, NO EXCEPTIONS.

And I was going to do that - but I did not. I forgot I had concluded I LIKE respawn for small vessels.
I still want to kill it for CVs - and I am running a test now to see if I have killed it in fact? If so - it goes into 4.48.
The problem is I give the Allies ALL the Essex carriers - wether or not they lose any - and so I don't want more showing up - and way too soon at that. I am hopeful the idea of moving the Essex class will work.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

I remember some time ago you lost your newest files and you had to recreate them from earlier version. Maybe you forgot to recreate those Soviet Navy changes.