when a tank commander knows he is going to have a bad day

[mbelew]

This is a shot taken today from a multiplayer game between myself and my boss. Essentially it's a binocular view from my T70 to one of his Panzers. What to do... button up and fight? or run away....

[e_barkmann]

well, according to the screenshot you've already made up your mind

[iggi]

You should fight. They have their flanks exposed. Moreover, being in woods, their turrets might have trouble turning. I believe CM slows down turret movement in woods. I don't know if this game also simulates that aspect.

The two tanks are awfull close. A hit on a flank might cause the other tank to be suppressed, or panic. Being in woods will also limit their ability to displace.

The fact that the two tanks are so close should tell you that the drivers are amateur. You should therefore smell blood and engage.

[Andreas1968]

You are dead, and it is too late to run. That would be my professional assessment.

All the best

Andreas

[FNG]

I'm guessing those are IIIJs, so say any farewells that you have to.

Quickly [:)]

[iggi]

You are dead, and it is too late to run. That would be my professional assessment.

All the best

Andreas

If you see the enemy, you are NOT dead. You should be thinking about attacking, not about dying. You are not aggressive enough.

A girl scout would tell me I'm dead.

[iggi]

A snake can jump up and bite him in his boots.

Lock and load! Aim for the flank!

[old man of the sea]

the back face culling on the wheels and treads of the tanks could be fixed wih an application of a texture on that face

E

[Yoozername]

Perhaps a short description of what could be done by the player is needed.

From what I understand, what you could do depends on if you are in command (orders?)phase or reaction phase. If you are a soviet in command phase, and have already been issued 'fire' orders (which it appears you have?), then even IF you issue a reverse or retreat or whatever, its going to take a phase (40 seconds) to kick in. If you are in a reaction phase, then you could possibly target the other panzer (which isn't very smart). I will assume you are in command or orders phase.

Since the Panzer (IV long?) is apparently eyeballing you (whats the range?), more than likely you are at a a disadvantage. He has a 3 man turret and more than likely will get the first hit and kill. In real life, the soviet TC would have to button up, sight the enemy tank, dial in the range and fire. The panzer is probably already well on its way as far as this process.

Not sure how the game handles afv automatically retreating but in this case it probably should. The soviets probably did not have a means to pop smoke also. I would say just keep firing and hopefully the game modeling will auto reverse the soviet tank after the first shot by the panzer misses (hopefully).

There are so many other factors to consider...

Are there other soviets targeting these badly deployed panzers? Have these panzers been suprresed? etc. How far away is cover for you?

Please explain what the symbols in the lower left hand corner represent. I see a tank turret, a lightening bolt and some other objects.

[koiosworks]

Please explain what the symbols in the lower left hand corner represent. I see a tank turret, a lightening bolt and some other objects.

In order... left to right..
(if symbol is 'red' that means you have it)

Crew Damage
Gun Damage
Track or Mobility Damage
Shocked/Stunned
Blown Up/Destroyed

That is his tank T70 selected, so his T70 is Stunned/Shocked and ain't gonna do much except get hammered.

BTW, the little green speaker icon up a bit is an indication that his tank is in Radio contact with HQ. (soviets have much worse radio contact chance than germans so he is a lucky tank there)


BTW2, the name of his unit in 'green' means those are Green trained troops manning the tank.

Thanks!

[Yoozername]

A green T70 in 1942 with a radio might be a miracle. Heres a later war photo of a T70 command tank using his backup 'radio'.

[Erik Rutins]

Yoozername,

It's an abstracted game design choice, definitely. There are a few of those based on that fact that we are aiming for historical results without over-modeling.

The artillery system is probably the biggest abstraction, in that we decided for this release not to model separate observers, but instead to give each HQ on a side a chance (extremely small for the Soviets) of being 'in contact' for purposes of having a chance to call in artillery. You can view this as the abstracted observer being near that unit at that time, it doesn't actually represent the T-70 itself having a radio, but rather being a HQ 'in contact' through some method.

Regards,

- Erik

[mbelew]

backup 'radio'

I love it!

[Yoozername]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Yoozername,

It's an abstracted game design choice, definitely. There are a few of those based on that fact that we are aiming for historical results without over-modeling.

The artillery system is probably the biggest abstraction, in that we decided for this release not to model separate observers, but instead to give each HQ on a side a chance (extremely small for the Soviets) of being 'in contact' for purposes of having a chance to call in artillery. You can view this as the abstracted observer being near that unit at that time, it doesn't actually represent the T-70 itself having a radio, but rather being a HQ 'in contact' through some method.

Regards,

- Erik

There's nothing wrong with abstractions and I am a proponent of them. Those that achieve realistic/historic results should be a design goal. I like that arty may or may not be available (just as IRL).

I believe the game will play differently than CM and am looking forward to it. It may actually be more realistic but not as anally detail obsessed.

[mbelew]

A snake can jump up and bite him in his boots.

Lock and load! Aim for the flank!

Actually, I saw a History Channel show about Stalingrad. Turns out Rats kept eating the wires in tanks. I wonder what the odds are on a rat attack?

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: iggi

If you see the enemy, you are NOT dead. You should be thinking about attacking, not about dying. You are not aggressive enough.

A girl scout would tell me I'm dead.

Now thats my kind of reply [&o]

ALWAYS! one in the tube [;)]

[Andreas1968]

ORIGINAL: iggi

You are dead, and it is too late to run. That would be my professional assessment.

All the best

Andreas

If you see the enemy, you are NOT dead. You should be thinking about attacking, not about dying. You are not aggressive enough.

A girl scout would tell me I'm dead.

How old are you?

My guess is that is a Panzer IVF-2 (or whichever the first model was with the long 75), by the looks of it, at the end of the target line. At this angle penetration by the 45mm should be possible, but you may just be unlucky. After-armour effects are an open question. Even if the Panzer IV cops it though, the remainder of the formation should make mince-meat of the T-70. Of course, you maybe lucky and the 75mm round may pass straight through the T70 without doing more than add ventilation. I wouldn't bet on it though.

All the best

Andreas

[FNG]

Isn't the turret the wrong shape for a IVF2s and no muzzle brake? I'm guessing IIIJ or IIIL...

[Andreas1968]

I am 90% certain it is a IV (check the driver compartment and the gun mantle), but it could of course be a IVD or whatever the last version with the 75L24 was. Those would still have been around.

Then again, maybe I am just having exaggerated expectations when it comes to exact representation. [:D]

All the best

Andreas

[Marc von Martial]

It is a Pzkpfw IVe