A radical new map concept

[el cid again]

IF we work out a projection you can make art for, imagine the work involved in making a new pwhex file! Talk about weak in the knees - and I have promised to do that if we can figure this out.

The easy part is latitude. It is never going to change. It is only longitude that changes.

The easy case for longitude is at the equator. Where is the equator - by the way? [In terms of what hex line?] The hex row above and below the equator have latitude and longitude equal to each other - the pixel count is the same. And I have a chart somewhere for each latitude - so I can determine the latitude limits we are at. Lets see - theoretically it is 60 statute miles per hex - or are we going over to nautical miles? That would sync everything (but airplanes) with the way ships move - and we could easily convert the plane data. IF we use nautical miles, we get 15% more latitude and longitude! OK

here it is - IF the equator was between hex row 74 and 75, and IF we used 60 nautical miles (one degree) per hex - we would go from Latitude 74 degrees North to 74 degrees South! Not bad. Right now it is 60 statute miles per hex = divide by 1.151 = 64 degrees North and South. But we have to adjust for where the equator really is - get back to you on that. Once we know the range of latitude and longitude, I can make a chart with the pixel count (for longitude) at each hex row. Meanwhile, I want comments on scale - do we do this in nautical miles or statute miles?

[CobraAus]

This morning I am looking at the size of a single hex in pixels and it raised some questions
the hex overlay that I am using to create the hex panels of any map panels created came from Andrew a long time ago and a single hex if 43 x 51 pixels (an oblong) The original stock map hex is also same size
now in the game each hex is suposed to represent 60 nautical miles or 3600 square miles but how can it when its unequal in size
based on the hex size 1 pixel = 1.395 NM across and 1.176 NM down this is not right to me.....
why is the hex not based on an equal square 43 x 43 which would then be equal in both directions is it something to do with distance on the games map projection ?
If you squared the hex to 43 x 43 there would be 27 extra rows of hex's in both directions

question 1 what benifit would doing that give us
2 would the PWHEX file work with the extra hex rows/columns
3 why is the hex as it is oblong and un-equal

Cobra Aus

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus
why is the hex not based on an equal square 43 x 43 which would then be equal in both directions is it something to do with distance on the games map projection ?

Hexes are not the same distance end-to-end as they are side-to-side. That is normal. However, the hexes used for the WitP map are actually not true hexes - they are stretched in the vertical by about 5% or so. This looks to have happened due to the way that the hex grid was originally drawn.

If you squared the hex to 43 x 43 there would be 27 extra rows of hex's in both directions

question 1 what benifit would doing that give us
2 would the PWHEX file work with the extra hex rows/columns
3 why is the hex as it is oblong and un-equal

Cobra Aus

The map is just art, so as long as the game code expects a map data file that is 151x151 then there is nothing that can be done about the map size. I once tried adding extra data to the map data file, but it was not recognised by the game.

Andrew

[CobraAus]

The map is just art, so as long as the game code expects a map data file that is 151x151

not accually what I meant I not looking to add to the map size I am looking at if you decreased the hex size to 43 x 43 the overlay would have 27 extra rows/columns of hex's
would the PWHEX be able to use them I think not but have to ask.

map data file 151 x 151 what is meant by that data ??

Cobra Aus

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

The map is just art, so as long as the game code expects a map data file that is 151x151

not accually what I meant I not looking to add to the map size I am looking at if you decreased the hex size to 43 x 43 the overlay would have 27 extra rows/columns of hex's
would the PWHEX be able to use them I think not but have to ask.

I meant that as well. You can't add additional data (i.e. hexes) to the map data file. The program will not handle it.

map data file 151 x 151 what is meant by that data ??

Cobra Aus

The WitP map data file contains 22,801 records. That is equivalent to 151 x 151. Each record is 48 bytes, for a total file size of 1,094,448 bytes.

Andrew

[Wallymanowar]

I have been toying with the idea of creating a flat map of the earth which would incorporate hexes for many years now. The best way to accomplish this is to use a map created on a geodesic globe - this would allow you to create a flat map with as little visual and distance distortion as possible. The unfortunate thing about it is that it leaves gaps which need to be bridged by programming tricks.

Using a truncated icosahedron produces the best effect:





For more examples of different pseudoglobes visit this site: http://www.progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/ ... ldout.html

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Mike Tremblay

I have been toying with the idea of creating a flat map of the earth which would incorporate hexes for many years now. The best way to accomplish this is to use a map created on a geodesic globe - this would allow you to create a flat map with as little visual and distance distortion as possible. The unfortunate thing about it is that it leaves gaps which need to be bridged by programming tricks.

Using a truncated icosahedron produces the best effect:

Yeah, I agree. Use a projection system like this and use the program to show a portion of the map without any "gaps". The problem, though, is what to do at the corners of the flat areas, where three of them join.

I was thinking about using the Buckminster Fuller map for this approach.

Andrew

[Wallymanowar]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Mike Tremblay

I have been toying with the idea of creating a flat map of the earth which would incorporate hexes for many years now. The best way to accomplish this is to use a map created on a geodesic globe - this would allow you to create a flat map with as little visual and distance distortion as possible. The unfortunate thing about it is that it leaves gaps which need to be bridged by programming tricks.

Using a truncated icosahedron produces the best effect:

Yeah, I agree. Use a projection system like this and use the program to show a portion of the map without any "gaps". The problem, though, is what to do at the corners of the flat areas, where three of them join.

I was thinking about using the Buckminster Fuller map for this approach.

Andrew

The corners are the areas where you end up with the most visual distortion. Fuller's geodesic map is what gave me the most inspiration but I found that the number of Polyhedrons he used was even more complicated for me to figure out, especially when I tried to apply hexes to the flattened map. I believe that you are correct in thinking that his map projection would be the best approach since the increased number of polyhedrons that he uses reduces he visual distortions even more than the icosahedron I have shown.

[Ramjet]

What would really be cool is a global map with no hexes, but use the lat & long and GPS to determine all distances and positions, just like the real world. Distances traveled will be calculated as time vs speed and course. Would love to see something done like this on a small scale to see if practicle, but how cool would be fighting the battle of the Coral Sea on a real world map.

[el cid again]

This is essentially my proposal. Further, the map may be adaptable. If there can be 151 rows - the center one can be the equator. Each row can be a degree of latitude - covering from 75 north to 75 south. All that remains is to calculate the number of degrees of longitude per hex at each latitude level - it gets to about three at the top and bottom edges. We plot the locations in these terms. Then tell our artists - make the art fit these locations. Range is simply the distance in hexes between the points - times 60 nautical miles.

I have a table of the longitude distance at each latitude too - the distance each degree is.