Thoughts on the (un)success of CotA (long)

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Just as you mentioned that you may buy COTA when you have the time ( and I suspect the state ) to learn about a new battle, I reckon most hold off because they are reluctant to embrace something new. To do so requires a certain frame of mind, a willingness to be challenged, a desire to explore and a preparedness to be patient. We all lead busy lives and seemingly more and more stressful. The prospect of an adventure is not always appealing and so we opt for the tried and true rather than seek out something new.

There is also a reluctance to challenge ones own perceptions and framework. By my age ( which my 17 year old daughter assures me is definitely middle age and some more [;)] ) we tend to have well established frameworks. It requires tremendous courage to challenge these. But it is only by continually doing so that we continue to grow personally. ( Oops...starting to digress here. [:)] )

Your recommendation about a survey is good idea. The trouble is getting customers to complete these. One option is to include a button on the Command Set that takes you to a website to fill in the survey. But how many people would actually fill it in. I suspect that most will eschew doing so for the same reasons they eschew making posts on the forum. We could make it a one-off requirement prior to gaining access to the Game. But how many people would be in favour of that?

I couldn't agree more. I made the leap to real time continiuous games a long time ago with Age of Empires. I have played many since, while wading through the undesireable click-fest types to find the ones that allowed me to give orders while paused to allow for some semblence of strategy. I have tried many, many times to get my old wargaming buddies interested in this type of game mechanic. I have had little success. I marvel at their intransigent refusal to learn new tricks even in the face of my constant lauding of the the virtues of the genre.

If by "one-off" requirement you are alluding to forcing new customers to fill out a survey to get access to the game I am strongly against it. Any mechanism that would make me a slave to some one else's needs and force an interrupting activity upon me causing me to waste my limited gaming time in order to able to game would leave a very, very bad taste in my mouth. I would probably swear never to purchase another product from a company that did that to me. It reminds me of the distastefu practices of some software peddlers in the past whose software installs took over my computer and installed all kinds of things I never wanted or asked for such as the AOL links in browsers and program menus that used to result from the installation of Creative Sound Blaster drivers or the many "extras" automatically installed by games from the old Sierra company. At least new generations of games prompt me to confirm my desire, or lack thereof, to install Gamespy and other similar programs. Software that takes control away from the user and forces a possibly unwanted activity upon them is not a good way to go IMHO.

[oi_you_nutter]

i agree that forcing people to do a survey (especially a worthwhile detailed survey) is not a good idea, it would annoy your customer too much. suggesting that they visit a website to fill out a survey is ok, but once again only some will do that and they would probably be the same opinionated folks who lurk here [:D], bless their little cotton socks.

btw, i do not install xfire, gamespy or whatever when i get asked to by a game, if i find that i need it, i will install it later (but never have found the need to)

dont forget arjuna, to a 17 year old, EVERYONE over the age of 25 is middle aged...  [:)]

[barbarossa2]

Ah yes!

I just thought of something. In my post above, I talk about what I perceive to be the useful role of trailers. Of course, many people could just sit down and "show" their friends COTA/AA. But I cannot. Most of my gaming friends now live dispersed across the globe. I only communictate with them by email and the occasional phone call.

I am sure many other Panther fans are in this situation.

I would like a better demo so that I could show it to these distant friends for lack of being able to sit down with them in person.

-Chris

[barbarossa2]

What about banner ads that say, in addition to everything else...

"Free DEMO: Download NOW"

Then you take the interested party to a page on your Website where they get to choose from:

1. A good trailer which introduces the concept of the game (a la COTA media trailer PLUS HTTR trailer).
2. An EZ download. This is the micro battle.
3. A full version with ONE playable scenario.

This would probably do it. And the second demo couldn't take too much programming effort.

I would be very curious to see what running banner ads like this would do.

[barbarossa2]

Someone above said pictures of commanders would be great (I agree)!

I think the sounds could be improved. I for one would prefer to have the sounds of a headquarters around me. Radio static. Occasional messages coming in from the field. A mug of Joe splashing about. I think this would add more to the experience than bombs going off and such. Perhaps they could be combined. The player could select which of the two channels he would hear...or both, and mix the volumes together.

And of course, coordinated attacks! [;)]

Now, lookie...I have a COTA banner on my posting. And I will be dragging it with me into the Empires in Arms and other Forums. Maybe we could get a few other players to do this. But I have to admit, someone's banner ad never got me to buy a game.

If you could give a free upcoming game to every one who sold five new players on your system, THAT would be something. I am sure that would help, but may be impractical to track and inadministerable.

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Someone above said pictures of commanders would be great (I agree)!

Yeh me too.

TT3182 - UI - SM - Add Commander Mug shots

I think the sounds could be improved. I for one would prefer to have the sounds of a headquarters around me. Radio static. Occasional messages coming in from the field. A mug of Joe splashing about. I think this would add more to the experience than bombs going off and such. Perhaps they could be combined. The player could select which of the two channels he would hear...or both, and mix the volumes together.

Agree.

TT3183 - UI - Add HQ Sounds Channel

And of course, coordinated attacks! [;)]

Now, lookie...I have a COTA banner on my posting. And I will be dragging it with me into the Empires in Arms and other Forums. Maybe we could get a few other players to do this. But I have to admit, someone's banner ad never got me to buy a game.

If you could give a free upcoming game to every one who sold five new players on your system, THAT would be something. I am sure that would help, but may be impractical to track and inadministerable.

Yes this could be very difficult to administer. [:)] I tell you what Chris, I'll take this matter up with David Heath and see what we can arrange. No promisses.

[barbarossa2]

Arjuna,

Don't worry about me on that free game thing. It is just a marketing thought. I will be fine without it. But it might help. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Better than anything you can buy. Maybe the way gamers function, you could throw in titles (ranks) and an extra, exclusive, Panther Game Field Marshall's scenario, which only they could distribute to their friends. That might be better than a free game for some. Or a free COTA mug. Or Panther Games "Field Marshall's" Mug. (just brainstorming here). Or maybe an offer to do Beta testing. These players need to have something exclusive. Product champions have long been a key to the success of marketing.

It is important to note that I only CLAIMED that no one's banner ad appearing in a signature (as below) ever got me to buy a game. Of course I could be wrong. Well known in the advertising and marketing world that people do lots of things they think they don't. I belive every exposure to advertising for your product reassures your current customers that they have made the right choice, and makes people wonder if they are missing out on something. It makes COTA more and more familiar and perceived as less of a risk. So when the time comes and they are browsing through the forums or seeing banner ads on the front page of Matrix Games, and there are 20 games they have never heard of, they will more likely stop in to COTA than GBHLUI (just made that one up) to see what is going on. I just put up a wall of COTA banner ads on this page. That's advertising no one can buy. Admittedly in here is not doing ANY good. But in other forums, it may.

I would prefer to see an improved trailer. Did you take a look at my lengthy posting on trailers/demos/campaign selection? Because I keep hearing this is a "new" way of playing wargames, I believe the perceived "barrier to entry" needs to be lowered. With low involvement/low commitment trailers/tutorials and demos.

Doing things like adding pictures and sounds IS great. But I don't believe it gets new people to try the game. I still think a banner ad with a link to FREE demos and a damned good trailer is the best thing next to friends sitting down with friends showing them this thing.

Chris

[Arjuna]

Chris,
 
Point taken re banner ads. Now that Eddy has finished his stint of manning the stall at the convention in Essen on the weekend, hopefully he'll still have some energy next weekend to focus on polishing up the 5 Minute Guide. I'll ask Matrix if they can't add a link in the banners to the new guide and then we can see what impact that has.

[Sturmovik]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Your recommendation about a survey is good idea. The trouble is getting customers to complete these.

Give out a free download of a map and/or scenario at the end of the survey. That could help the silent customers to give out a bit of info.

[HansBolter]

Pictures of commanders was one of the coolest features of HOI2.

I agree that they would add significant flavor to the interface.

[Txema]

And while we are speaking about including pictures of commanders in the User Interface (a great idea, BTW!!!), please don´t forget to implement also this old request (done having HTTR in mind) to make the User Interface more appealing:

"I think it would be very nice and usefull to be able to access the equipment description included in the scenario editor (that includes a photograph of de equipment and its main characteristics), by double clicking the equipment name when playing the game (for example, by double clicking the "Panzer V G" name, a photograph of the tank and its main characteristics (armor, main gun ...) are available in the scenario editor.... ). Could you please make them available also when playing the game ?? (for example in a pop-up window)"

Do you think this new feature could be implemented for BFTB??

Txema

[Arjuna]

Txema,
 
That's a lot of work, given the number of screens that will have to be programmed. One thing to realise is that the ScenMaker use the standard MFC windows, whereas the game uses our customised Panther GUI. This ensures everything has the same consistent look. Besides, I reckon the best option for the game is to split the E&S Tab view in half and display the estab data for the item selected from the list in the bottom half.
 
We need more sales so I can hire another programmer! [:)]

[Fred98]

I bought HTTR when it was released and COTA when it was released.
 
I have been through the first tutorial 3 times and yet don't know how to play.
 
I am an experienced wargamer and yet I don't "get it".
 
 
 
 
 

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

I am an experienced wargamer and yet I don't "get it".

Come on you're an old school (AA-) player. [:)]
Besides, the average "Joe" (sorry, had to type this, heehe !) should be able to get the basics down easily, especially with this intuitive GUI. No? [8D]

[James Sterrett]

Can you be more specific about what you don't get?

[Fred98]

No I can't.  I have been trying to be for a long time.
 
Ultimately it doesn't feel like a military similation.
 
 

[Arjuna]

Joe 98,
 
That's no problem. We're here to help.
 
First off, how about you start with a simple but specific question and we'll take it from there. Eg. How do I give an order? How do I work out what objectives I need to take? etc
 
Have you seen The 5 Minute Guide Eddy knocked up. It's a movie of him demoing the game. Get it here:
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=313
 
Hopefully Eddy will complete a more polished version of this shortly but it does cover the basics.

[Fred98]

I have been attempting to play for some years so I don't need a basic guide thank you.
 
Instead of saying I don't know how to play, I should say i don't know how to wargame this series.
 
 

[Deathtreader]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

I have been attempting to play for some years so I don't need a basic guide thank you.

Instead of saying I don't know how to play, I should say i don't know how to wargame this series.

Hi,

I don't want to sound dense but is what you mean....

While you understand the game mechanics you don't see how the design is reflective of strategy/tactics and the operational art??

Rob.

[z1812]

Hi Joe 98,

I sometimes feel the same way with this series. I am not sure if it is lack of immersion or just a matter of taste. I do think the game system is very good but of course it may not be everyone one's cup of tea.

There was a post where a fellow said that he felt he was watching the game play more than playing it himself. I also have that feeling at times. It may be just the system being different. I use the fast forward button to move my way through the "boring bits" and use regular time for "sticky bits". This works for me. Certainly there are some very tense and dramatic "edge of my seat moments" in this system and it is quite enjoyable.

Korsun Pocket is a game, for instance, that was not for me. Although I gave it a good go I could not enjoy it. In my view that was a simple matter of personal taste. There are some games that we really want to like and enjoy but
"we just can't get it".

Regards John