AT vs TOAW3

[bbmike]

How similar/different is Advanced Tactics compared to The Operational Art of War 3? I have TOAW3 and have barely tried it. This game seem sort of the same. I just downloaded and tried Peoples Tactics as some recommended on this forum. I have to say it is very addictive![:)]

[ravinhood]

This game will be less complicated, more direct and faster turns than TOAW III. Of course those that have mastered TOAW III will say differently, but, masters are usually like that, they think if they can do it everyone else should be able to do it and love it. lol I'm waiting on this puppy. I like KISS games and this has all the makings of a KISS game and not some game that gives you headaches or takes an hour a turn. lol The historical value is there if you keep up with the AAR that is going on, except maybe in the south where it looks like the german player got a big jump and is at the gates of Stalingrad already in Dec of 41. They can tweak that though before the game is released I think and make it a bit harder for the German player to blitzkrieg to Stalingrad so fast. I'm going to highly recommend this game because VIC is a nice guy basically independent and gave us all a great FREE game before making this one.

On the other hand if you want complicated and detailed then TOAW III will probably be for you. Hell buy both of them then you can't go wrong.

[Ola Berli]

This nice women above say it so nice that I only must agree with her [:D]

[Arditi]

  Much of PT's(and hence AT as it is a great improvement) complexity comes from the decisions to be made.  Tactical decisions(recon, air, ground, etc), reinforcement(what type do I make?)and what priority objectives do I take may seem like simple decisions compared to other games, but becomes a larger/growing puzzle that delightfully becomes a brain teaser.  I like TOAW 3 and I will really like AT because I know that Vic will improve on everything(how little) that PT lacked(differing terrain, better random map generator, better play/ interface graphics and a stronger editor).  There is something about PT/hence AT that really appeals to me over other games of this genre that is hard to put my finger on.  I guess I like filling my chits/units up with tanks, infantry, air, etc. of my choice and seeing little graphic representations of the hardware(a sensory thing I bet).  I like upgrading with a research tree my tanks, etc.  I like the supply rules and how it affects readiness, etc.  I like trying to outfox my opponent by recon and quesswork what he is going to put into his chits/units to try to achieve victory.  I guess it's the "I have the power/influence" to put what I want in my units that's appealing...and Ravinhood I agree with you that Vic is a class act.  With that scenario editor we are going to see some outstanding scenarios I believe.  The only complaint I have is that it is not in my greedy little hands!  haha[:)]
Respectfully, Arditi

[ravinhood]

Yeah I agree when are we going to get the game VIC? You know it's rare ole ravinhood wants to buy any game nowadays. Of course the ones I really want are still in production. lol Les Grognards from Battlefront. EIA from Matrix and now this. This isn't really something new though, but, it has talent and the kind of game I like KISS even if there are some details to it. PT was excellent, just the right mix of depth and complexity what I think most wargamers want. We just don't have that time anymore to spend days and weeks and years playing one game anymore. Let me be 12 again and I'll play and probably like WitP or TOAW's. Now, I'd rather play a game of EMPIRE than some of these wargames. Ahhh EMPIRE one of the greatest computer games in history and look how old it is. And WARLORDS another great game in history and it's pretty old also. Went out and bought a damn Amiga 500 just to play that game. lol Then came SWORD of ARAGON and the command decision WATERLOO game with colorful blocks for units. ROMANCE of the 3 KINGDOMS....<sigh> the good ole days.

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: Ola Berli

This nice women above say it so nice that I only must agree with her [:D]

Lol, most everyone seems to like my avatar. Ain't she pretty? The woman of yesteryear, glamour and lace pretty in face.

[Arditi]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Ahhh EMPIRE one of the greatest computer games in history and look how old it is. And WARLORDS another great game in history and it's pretty old also. Went out and bought a damn Amiga 500 just to play that game. lol Then came SWORD of ARAGON and the command decision WATERLOO game with colorful blocks for units. ROMANCE of the 3 KINGDOMS....<sigh> the good ole days.

I remember! Great games all! PT/ hence AT, in my opinion, is like Empire, but has everyting I wish Empire had at the time. Thanks for the trip back! haha[:)]
Best Regards, Arditi

[Zakhal]

They belong to different category:

IGOUGO
Panzer General
Decisive Battles
Advanced tactics

WEGO
TOAW

For me the problem with toaw is that its too hard to try to put all those hundreds of gamepieces into your head and only see the results AFTER planning EVERY move of EVERY piece on the board. Its way too easy too loose focus (forget what the whole big picture was) when it takes like a good part of an hour to set them all.

In games like panzer general etc you get results instantly so you never loose focus.

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

They belong to different category:

IGOUGO
Panzer General
Decisive Battles
Advanced tactics

WEGO
TOAW

For me the problem with toaw is that its too hard to try to put all those hundreds of gamepieces into your head and only see the results AFTER planning EVERY move of EVERY piece on the board. Its way too easy too loose focus (forget what the whole big picture was) when it takes like a good part of an hour to set them all.

In games like panzer general etc you get results instantly so you never loose focus.

I agree with this...whether or not it's more "realistic" who knows and who cares, but I always had a hard time keeping focus of the big picture with TOAW. But I still like it and play it occasionally...

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

They belong to different category:

IGOUGO
Panzer General
Decisive Battles
Advanced tactics

WEGO
TOAW

For me the problem with toaw is that its too hard to try to put all those hundreds of gamepieces into your head and only see the results AFTER planning EVERY move of EVERY piece on the board. Its way too easy too loose focus (forget what the whole big picture was) when it takes like a good part of an hour to set them all.

In games like panzer general etc you get results instantly so you never loose focus.

Exactly and it's why games like Panzer General and EMPIRE as so popular. They are KISS games, play fast and easy and very hard to lose focus unless you save the game and try to pick it up say oh a year later. lol They really should rename it: Advanced Tactics There and Back again. lol

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

They belong to different category:

IGOUGO
Panzer General
Decisive Battles
Advanced tactics

WEGO
TOAW

For me the problem with toaw is that its too hard to try to put all those hundreds of gamepieces into your head and only see the results AFTER planning EVERY move of EVERY piece on the board. Its way too easy too loose focus (forget what the whole big picture was) when it takes like a good part of an hour to set them all.

In games like panzer general etc you get results instantly so you never loose focus.

Exactly and it's why games like Panzer General and EMPIRE as so popular. They are KISS games, play fast and easy and very hard to lose focus unless you save the game and try to pick it up say oh a year later. lol They really should rename it: Advanced Tactics There and Back again. lol

Alright that's enough! What in God's name is a KISS game?

[Westheim]

ORIGINAL: TPM

Alright that's enough! What in God's name is a KISS game?

I believe I read that in context with some other freeware game (Battle for Wesnoth?). I think it meant "Keep it stupid simple" or something like that. And I may be totally wrong with this ...

[balsampear]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

They belong to different category:

IGOUGO
Panzer General
Decisive Battles
Advanced tactics

WEGO
TOAW

TOAW is not WEGO,Just IGOUGO

[Vic]

to be honest Advanced Tactics is not THAT simple. It is actually more complex then its predecessor Peoples Tactics.

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: balsampear
TOAW is not WEGO,Just IGOUGO

True. For som weird reason it just feels more like WEGO. Its IGOUGO but with WEGO elements like heavy amount of planning before seeing any results.

[bbmike]

ORIGINAL: Vic

to be honest Advanced Tactics is not THAT simple. It is actually more complex then its predecessor Peoples Tactics.

Good news! But I wouldn't really call Peoples Tactics simple either. I just lost my first game![:'(]

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Arditi

  Much of PT's(and hence AT as it is a great improvement) complexity comes from the decisions to be made.  Tactical decisions(recon, air, ground, etc), reinforcement(what type do I make?)and what priority objectives do I take may seem like simple decisions compared to other games, but becomes a larger/growing puzzle that delightfully becomes a brain teaser.  I like TOAW 3 and I will really like AT because I know that Vic will improve on everything(how little) that PT lacked(differing terrain, better random map generator, better play/ interface graphics and a stronger editor).  There is something about PT/hence AT that really appeals to me over other games of this genre that is hard to put my finger on.  I guess I like filling my chits/units up with tanks, infantry, air, etc. of my choice and seeing little graphic representations of the hardware(a sensory thing I bet).  I like upgrading with a research tree my tanks, etc.  I like the supply rules and how it affects readiness, etc.  I like trying to outfox my opponent by recon and quesswork what he is going to put into his chits/units to try to achieve victory.  I guess it's the "I have the power/influence" to put what I want in my units that's appealing...and Ravinhood I agree with you that Vic is a class act.  With that scenario editor we are going to see some outstanding scenarios I believe.  The only complaint I have is that it is not in my greedy little hands!  haha[:)]
Respectfully, Arditi

Absolutely agree with you Arditi...I've said a bunch of times in other posts, but there is a simple eloquence to the game (PT I'm talking about, I'm assuming AT) that I really find appealing. The game is just complicated enough to keep you interested, but simple enough to allow to actually PLAY the damn thing instead of learning a bunch of rules and concepts...anyway, yeah, can't wait to get this one.

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Arditi

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Ahhh EMPIRE one of the greatest computer games in history and look how old it is. And WARLORDS another great game in history and it's pretty old also. Went out and bought a damn Amiga 500 just to play that game. lol Then came SWORD of ARAGON and the command decision WATERLOO game with colorful blocks for units. ROMANCE of the 3 KINGDOMS....<sigh> the good ole days.

I remember! Great games all! PT/ hence AT, in my opinion, is like Empire, but has everyting I wish Empire had at the time. Thanks for the trip back! haha[:)]
Best Regards, Arditi

EXACTLY! I loved empire, but there was so much NOT there, that finally I grew tired of it...this game is the fullfillment of what Empire could have been...

[TPM]

ORIGINAL: Vic

to be honest Advanced Tactics is not THAT simple. It is actually more complex then its predecessor Peoples Tactics.

I can see from the screenshots that there is a bit more there...but it also looks like the core of PT is there...and this is a VERY GOOD THING. I remember when talk of PT2 started, all I kept thinking was, "Man I hope they don't go and ruin this perfect game..."

[Awac835]

AT looks very good. I myself was excitet when TOAW was released by matrix. I bought it to. But have to admit it was to confusing also the UI would have been ok 15 years ago. But today it just have to be more streamlined. The new Harpoon ANW has the same problem imo. Great gameplay but dammit the interface is to clumsy to handle for me anyway.

AT i hope will have a good UI with lots of hotkeys. Second it looks like its actualy more of a game worty of comparison with the DB series then TOAW.
For me DB is the current king of wargames. KP was good. But BiN blew me away. Hopefully AT can give some good competition.