Rubble?

[Titanwarrior89]

I was playing a game a few weeks ago and thought artillery turned a village into rubble. Is that so? Ive been playing since and has not happened. Just wonder if that was my eyes playing a trick on me.[:D]

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I was playing a game a few weeks ago and thought artillery turned a village into rubble. Is that so? Ive been playing since and has not happened. Just wonder if that was my eyes playing a trick on me.[:D]

Nope. That has never been the case.

Jason Petho

[Arkady]

It was probably another John Tillers game...one of Panzer Campaigns

[british exil]

Artillery should in theory destroy a town/village. Deny the town to the enemy, destroying all cover(buildings) that a town has. Reducing it to rubble.
Artillery should pulverize a tarmac covered road thus causing troops entering such a hex a higher Ap expenditure. I know that after artillery has fired a few salvos into a certain area you can't go strolling through it, as the craters are too numerous. Tracked vehicles can traverse such an area but wheeled vehicles wouldn't be able to or would find the going very slow.

Would be nice if we could use artillery as a tactical weapon, to slow an enemy advance or to deter an certain pathway to him.

[Jason Petho]

ORIGINAL: british exil

Artillery should in theory destroy a town/village. Deny the town to the enemy, destroying all cover(buildings) that a town has. Reducing it to rubble.
Artillery should pulverize a tarmac covered road thus causing troops entering such a hex a higher Ap expenditure. I know that after artillery has fired a few salvos into a certain area you can't go strolling through it, as the craters are too numerous. Tracked vehicles can traverse such an area but wheeled vehicles wouldn't be able to or would find the going very slow.

Would be nice if we could use artillery as a tactical weapon, to slow an enemy advance or to deter an certain pathway to him.

Would be nice indeed!

Jason Petho

[Titanwarrior89]

Thanks for the answer Jason.   Wish we had it.  Oh well[:)]

[Warhorse]

It does do damage to a village, graphicly speaking, but not to a city.

Mike

[105mm Howitzer]

Neither does it affect a factory. I do wish it would, though. Burning woods might also be nice.

[Huib]

The instances that towns are reduced to rubble by arty are very rare (and non-existent in the time span of most CS scenarios) . It needs large aerial bombardments to do so. The reducement to rubble in PzC series by a few arty salvos is utterly ridiculous as we are even speaking 1 x 1 km hexes there. Only when towns were fought over for a prolonged period (weeks or months), they were reduced rubble. Huertgen is an example of that. St Vith and Bastogne for example were bombed from the air. (Bastogne was not even totally in rubble then btw)

PLEASE don't bring this unrealistic feature in CS. Very bad idea.

Huib

[Jason Petho]

Good points, Huib!

Jason Petho

[andym]

Why not have it as an Option?

[british exil]

Huib
You are right with your time calculation. 1 battle in CS is not enough time to reduce a town or city to rubble.Should of thought of that myself. 10 turns = 1 hour. Way to short.

Point accepted!

[105mm Howitzer]

Sorry lade, not convinced at all...1 hour of arty WILL wreck nicely a small town. ( less obvious so for larger cities/industrial complexes) It will also set fire to a several hundred meters of woods.( if the conditions are right, I know, we have done so )

[Huib]

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

Sorry lade, not convinced at all...1 hour of arty WILL wreck nicely a small town. ( less obvious so for larger cities/industrial complexes) It will also set fire to a several hundred meters of woods.( if the conditions are right, I know, we have done so )

No it doesn't. Show me pictures with the evidence if you're so sure. I can post a picture if you like of the town of Schevenhuette after a heavy artillery barrage preceding the German attack in Sept 1944. The town is damaged, yes but not by far to the extent that this would hamper movement in any way. The latter is what I'm talking about. Any graphical enhancements I'm OK with, but not with the possibilty to create a rubble hex by shooting on it.

/H

[asiaticus]

Another thing artillery could do was clear barbed wire entanglements (blocks) which was a common thing it was used for in WWI. Would be nice if that could happen as a low probability from a bombardment.

[Huib]

Yes and in reality all soldiers could clear these things too.... not just engineers. Let's leave things how they are.
Sometimes roadblocks were a line of trees blown by engineers to fall over the road...shooting these up with arty is really cool....
Better not.

[105mm Howitzer]

Define heavy artillery barrage please. Short and intense or drwn-out and protracted? See Huib is that artillery concentrated over a smaller area over a long time will effectively create rubble. It's not the caliber that counts, but the area targeted.
As to hamper movement, I quite agree with you. I meant for the game in term of graphical enhancements only. ( after all, what benefits would a rubble hex give?) And I still stick to my guns on the woods on fire theme.

ORIGINAL: Huib

ORIGINAL: 105mm Howitzer

Sorry lade, not convinced at all...1 hour of arty WILL wreck nicely a small town. ( less obvious so for larger cities/industrial complexes) It will also set fire to a several hundred meters of woods.( if the conditions are right, I know, we have done so )

No it doesn't. Show me pictures with the evidence if you're so sure. I can post a picture if you like of the town of Schevenhuette after a heavy artillery barrage preceding the German attack in Sept 1944. The town is damaged, yes but not by far to the extent that this would hamper movement in any way. The latter is what I'm talking about. Any graphical enhancements I'm OK with, but not with the possibilty to create a rubble hex by shooting on it.

/H

[The Rattler]

The allies made a huge mistake bombing the Monte Cassino Abbey which caused rubble and in fact a better defense for the defenders.There were none at the Abbey during the raid but the german paras poured in afterwards and took up positions. Some of the greatest British losses were at this location around 50000 allied casualties to 20000 germans. Of course this was an armada of heavy bombers B17 B25/26.. 

[105mm Howitzer]

Precisely. I visited the Abbey years ago, it gave me deeper appreciation of what the Allies had to endure. Very little in terms of natural cover. But besides Monte Cassino, there's also Caen which was so rubble stren, that movement by wheeled vehicle was impossible, and tracked ones had no fun too.