Surrender in Detailed Battle

[pzpat]

     This discussion of troop quality brings up a question I mentioned in passing elsewhere.  I think it's unrealistic that a brigade you have just bought will have a higher quality than one that has been in combat for a year or two, even counting replacements.  Having said that, when playing the North I buy brigades whenever I can.  [:'(]

[Gil R.]

pzpat,
One thing to consider is that many men in such units might previously have fought in the war, but only had to serve for three months, a year, two years, etc., and then rejoined when the new units were raised. Many of the regiments created starting in 1862 already had veterans, and in 1864 there were a lot of old regiments expiring and men from these reenlisting. Also, purchased brigades take so much longer than mustered/conscripted ones because of all of the training they receive. If you think of some of the better units, they received extensive drilling before ever seeing battle.

I'm curious, though, what change you might suggest.

[Ironclad]

GShock: Re your latest points:

ORIGINAL: GShock

1) The AI seems a bit too passive during the night where i manage to surround and capture enemy bdes very easily. AI just turns facing but doesn't carry out any plan. Perhaps shooting by night should automatically cause fatigue (considering the troops have fought all the day), that would rebalance towards the AI making this "exploit" very risky (next morning they still have to fight a fresh enemy while they are all fatigued).

The change that altered night time behaviour states that "Any fire attack at night now always results in fatigue for the attacker and defender". From what I have seen I had assumed this meant contributing towards fatigue but perhaps we need clarification. Note that units recover from fatigue losses more swiftly at night as an added incentive for both sides to use the hours of darkness for recovery and preparation.

2) Obj. Location, probably the only tactic that pays is to wait for the AI to come to you at one of the 2 or 3 spots. In case of 3 spots, the AI "burns" 2 of its troops to occupy them and fights sometimes outnumbered. If the goal is still to rout the enemy army, rather than sneaking to capture all victory locations, perhaps the capture of one of those should affect the will-to-fight. What i mean, is to give some material importance to these locations or they can easily be exploited to outwit the AI who goes for it.

It does affect WTF at present - the attacker gains 1 per VL captured. There are some comments on this in the wish list thread. You may want to add some of your suggestions there too.

3) Some "initiative" options do not make much sense. I refer, in particular, to the one where you can raid the enemy supplies before battle. What possible use is this if a single caisson can refill all enemy units before i get to them? I was wondering perhaps if that "200" number over the caisson would mean the total number of supplies available and if these weren't unlimited, then raiding those supplies would really give an edge in the upcoming combat.

Actually this option can be very effective in delaying an enemy's attack, especially if he is short of supply caissons. Very useful if one is heavily outnumbered and if defending as it gives a better chance to prolong the battle overnight and so improve the WTF score and to bring up any reinforcements. Of course if you have a cavalry advantage you may still prefer to opt for cavalry reserve. The effects are best noticed when the AI does it to you!

I don't know how much chance you have had to study the patch readmes' but its well worthwhile as the game has been significantly updated since the manual. It was very good to start with but the updates have made it even better - into a true classic.

[GShock]

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

The change that altered night time behaviour states that "Any fire attack at night now always results in fatigue for the attacker and defender". From what I have seen I had assumed this meant contributing towards fatigue but perhaps we need clarification. Note that units recover from fatigue losses more swiftly at night as an added incentive for both sides to use the hours of darkness for recovery and preparation.

After a day's combat i can manouver and take the morale bonus with flanking against the fatigue penalty to increase damage on already depleted and passive AI units. I do get tired but i do rout them much more easily; furthenmore, those units i capture or rout still count against the WTF for the AI, and it's lame to beat it like that as a night's combat can turn the odds since the AI does nothing but counter-volley. I suppose it doesn't even resupply the units who, surrounded, are constantly countervolleying.

It does affect WTF at present - the attacker gains 1 per VL captured. There are some comments on this in the wish list thread. You may want to add some of your suggestions there too.

Too little. I am getting attacked by AI sometimes when the attacker has half my WTF and adding +1 or even +2 matters very little in these cases. Maybe a stronger modifier would do.

Actually this option can be very effective in delaying an enemy's attack, especially if he is short of supply caissons. Very useful if one is heavily outnumbered and if defending as it gives a better chance to prolong the battle overnight and so improve the WTF score and to bring up any reinforcements. Of course if you have a cavalry advantage you may still prefer to opt for cavalry reserve. The effects are best noticed when the AI does it to you!

It takes the enemy at least 4 turns to get to me. In those 4 turns i have 4 newly resupplied units in front line, entrenchments and the supply caissons easily refilling the other ones as the time goes by. Since these ones do not start totally unsupplied, they can shoot too before going unsupplied and if the night falls...well, you can refill safely as the AI sleeps. Armies can't fight without supplies...maybe this option should affect:
a ) total number of supplies all units can carry in current battle
b ) total number of caissons with X caissons missing in current battle

I don't know how much chance you have had to study the patch readmes' but its well worthwhile as the game has been significantly updated since the manual. It was very good to start with but the updates have made it even better - into a true classic.

I came by with 1.10.10b already. Can't look at the past (I'll never know how it was before) but i can look at the future. The things i mentioned, just don't look right to me.

[Ironclad]

As the patches amend and add to the original game (as covered in the manual) I think it helps to know their contents, particularly the major updates. Still whatever you feel comfortable with - we each have our different ways of becoming familiar with a game.

Edit: I think you misunderstood my raid supply scenario. I agree that a defender can get by, I was referring to the delaying effect on the attacker when he is subjected to the raid supplies and he has few supply caissons relative to his force size.

[Falconius]

ORIGINAL: jkBluesman

Correct. Generals are lost (sometimes capture is a cheap way to get rid of bad generals because you do not have to demote them).

In my current game as Dixie, I was fortunate enough to capture U.S. Grant when his unit surrendered (I had him outnumbered in detailed combat and was successful in picking "Surprise Attack" from the scouting options). It's only March of 1862. So he's really out of the game permanently? No chance for Generals to return due to a parole?

Also, is there a list of captured Generals or units I can view? I'd like to be able to see Grant in a POW camp and make sure he's still there, and maybe even taunt him a little! [:D]

[Gil R.]

No, we thought that a parole system would involve micromanaging.

Please put your suggestions in the Wish List thread, so that they will be preserved long after this thread has sunk out of sight.