Loaning Feudal Corps

[Mardonius]

Per page 97 of the game manual "Feudal corps perform like other corps except that they may not detach, exchange, or absorb army factors." No surprise here.

However, in a pre-campaign test game I tried to lend a feudal corps to an Austrian Ally and received an error of wrong unit type. I tried feudal corps with and without leaders, both to no avail. I was able to loan the Austrian Nezami Cedid, Imperial Cavalry, Janissary and Syrian Corps but was not able to loan any feudal unit.

Please advise if this is an error as it does differ from the game manual and is not in the spirit of the combined movement option in the board game. Moreover, it seriously undermines Turkey's options.

Thanks,
Mardonius

[Mynok]

I don't believe feudal corps could be loaned in the boardgame. Just from memory, so it may be faulty.

[Mardonius]

There was no reason to loan corps in the board game. One just did a combined allied movement.

[Mynok]

True, but I'm thinking in terms of the "corps on loan" surrender terms. I don't think feudals could be chosen.

I really hope they can figure out how to put combined movement in this game. It's pretty critical IMO.

[Mardonius]

From the Avalon Hill print version.

Here is how victory condition B4 reads: "Victor has the use of a corps on loan for the next 12 months. The victor has the informed choice of the corps but a Guard, Grenadier, Artillery or Cavalry symbol corps may not be selected..."

No mention of Feudals. Further, this is a different animal than the loaning of corps in EIANW.

Needs to be fixed. I imagine that the same situation probably applies to Russian cossacks too. They should be "loanable" as well to reflect combined movement.

best
Mardonius

[MarshallEllis]

That is very different. You definitely cannot loan a feudal corps in EiANW. The new nation could not stand them down, raise them or participate in the levy in December.

[Mardonius]

Thank you Marshall for the clarification. Please be aware that this limitation will significantly undercut Turkey's ability to participate in any sort of coalition. In the board game, one could combine all of Turkey's forces into an Allied stack's movement and combat. In EIA NW, Turkey will not be able to be nearly as effective a coalition partner. As such, Turkey is significantly degraded in power in the EIA NW version.

I would encourage you to try and fix this limitation.

Sincerely,
Mardonius

[MarshallEllis]

There are all sorts of tech issues with combined movement (Making two players active at the same time) but we're looking at ways to emulate. We'll keep you posted on the progress.

[carnifex]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

That is very different. You definitely cannot loan a feudal corps in EiANW. The new nation could not stand them down, raise them or participate in the levy in December.

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning. Of course the new nation can't do any of those things.

The only thing the other nation cares about is that the three Turkish cavalry corps are in the stack for pursuit.

Lacking this, I fail to see why I should ever accept an alliance request from the Turk.

[zaquex]

Dont you get loaned corps back after each turn? That was my impression from previous posts and if so whats the problem lending feudals from a turkish perspective?

[bresh]

Still this cripples turkey for allieances.
 
Hope you come up with a good combined movement option
 
Its prob something about as you said. Make the nations combining, moving after each other.
But only having one land combat phase. After the last nation moved.
 
Regards
Bresh

[Mynok]

Make the nations combining, moving after each other.
But only having one land combat phase. After the last nation moved.

And excellent thought. It would not be perfect because the first player to move might be hung out on a limb if the opponent moves before his ally. Yet....it seems better than nothing.

[zaquex]

Whats been suggested is as close as a true combined movement as is possible and eliminates the possibility for a none combined player to move between powers that have announced combined movement.
 
Basicly it would work something like this: Russia and spain both agrees on combined movement, Russias movement phase is moved to just before Spain, Russia moves but there is no combat phase then spain moves and there is one single combat phase executed.
 
This would solve all combined movement issues except one what i can see; that Spain in this example decides to shaft Russia and not move its corps in to that big battle with the huge stack with that scray leader....
 
But I guess thats a risk you have to be prepared to take when you decide to combine moves.
 
Some of the code for changing sequence must already have been written to enable England and France to change the move order, but we still have to wait and see if Marshall can manage to get something like this to work in any near future. I think hes looking in to it but has so far not given any promises he can solve it. 

[MarshallEllis]

Carnifex:
 
I guess what I was trying to say is that if the corps were still on loan during the Levy then the Turks could miss out on the restoration of the unit. I guess you could just be careful to make sure that you do not loan in December??? I need to investiagate to see if technically the corps are returned at the beginning of the next month or at the end of the land combat phase (Making it available in the Levy step).
 

[carnifex]

Ahh ok.  My recommendation would be to let the Turk worry about where his corps are during the Levy.   I don't believe there would be a material effect anyway.  If the loaned corps are full, then they won't need to be raised.  And if they're not full, then they shouldn't be on loan.   The only time I can think of where this might affect the Turk is if there is a big battle in December and his corps are depleted during that turn and he can't raise them because he doesn't have control yet, but how many battles happen in December anyway?

[zaquex]

I agree with carnifex its should be the turkish players choice if he wants to use the levy step or not and denying him much of the benefits of "combined movement" with the majority of his army feels unfair.

[AresMars]

I would agree that it should be up to the Turk to decide....in effect, he already does, as during the Diplomacy phase he has to LEND or not anyways.
 
However, then suppply becomes his problem....sigh....never easy to play the Turks....  [;)]

[zaquex]

However, then suppply becomes his problem....sigh....never easy to play the Turks....

very true but its not really an exclusive turkish problem though, actually its less a turkish problem as feudals always could try there magic teleport... 

[Soapy Frog]

Or just forage anyway since who cares what losses they take... they wll be back to full in the levy step.

[AresMars]

"Every Feudal infantry is sacred..." sung to the Monty Python song

I like my FI to die taking Russian, Austrian or Spanish troops with them...not chasing loose sheep....