OT:An NFL Playoffs Thread

[sullafelix]

 I totally agree that they would be insane to try to do it again.
 
 " But the crib sheet, or in this case the video, would have no bearing on whether you passed the test, or won the game, as it would have been of no use." I disagree completely on this. When I went to school, at all levels a crib sheet found even before you could use it would be an automatic failure. Which in this case would be a forfeit. 
 
 I'm not saying that they did cheat before or that they needed to cheat to win. It's like Sammy Sosa's cork bat. For all time there will be the question, did they do it before.
 
I admit to being an oldtimer and my view on sports is probably outdated. I believe when you are making millions of dollars ( or in the case of a team billions ) and you are a in the limelight. You have an obligation to fans and society in general ro act and hold yourself honorably. The message that the Pats are putting out there, is win at all cost. This shows not only in the ibcident we are talking about but many other on the field actions ( running up scores, late hits etc. ). I'm unfortunately aware that this idea of obligation and being accountable for your actions seems to be a thing of the past with many players.

[Yogi the Great]

I believe they got caught trying the same thing (cheating) in Green Bay prior to this incident.  My understanding is that it was handled informally.  So result with no real punishment was they did it again.  Now I have to admit that I can't recall the details of the Green Bay incident.  [&:] All I remember is after they caught for the "known" incident there was discussion on Wisconsin radio stations about how this had happened in Green Bay prior to it.
 
 

[Arctic Blast]

And, really, don't you guys think quite a few teams have done the SAME thing over the years? Hell, several ex-coaches (most notably Jimmy Johnson on Fox) have come out and SAID that they've done it in the past. There's all sorts of stuff like this going on in sports, period. Every single pro baseball team has a guy in the stands with binoculars, trying to steal the signs the catcher is sending to the pitcher...which is why they switch signals up regularly. NFL teams have been changing their signals regularly for years...you think they started doing that for kicks? Of course not...they knew they needed to keep their signals from becoming predictable, because they knew a lot of teams were filming them.

I'm not saying I agree with this stuff, I simply think it's ridiculous that one team is being raked over the coals for something that common sense tells you MANY teams (likely including the Jets, since Mangini was probably pulling the same crap once he took over there...after all, he didn't feel the need to 'come clean' with he was the Pats defensive co-ordinator. No, he waited until suddenly it might affect his new team) have been doing for a long time.

[sullafelix]

If it is so common and widespread then why make a stink about it at all? Why a big fine and the loss of a draft pick if it's something that everyone does? Evidently the NFL felt they had to make a big statement that this sort of thing will not be tolerated. I highly doubt that they just out of the blue decided to make an example of the Pats and no one else. The pats are the major face of the NFL for the 2000's. The NFL could have easily picked a team that's had a bad record for awhile and made it a slight blip on the radar instead of the firestorm it created. The NFL is huge business and money and I don't think the NFL would have gone after one of the big money makers unless they had too. The best teams of an era are always the greatest moneymakers for the NFL. I'm a packer fan and until we started having winning seasons and a superbowl win you couldn't find anything with a Packer logo on it except in Wisconsin.
 
 Unless of course Yogi is right and they had already been warned once about it. But being a rabid Pack fan I don't think I would have missed that news story.

[Yogi the Great]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

And, really, don't you guys think quite a few teams have done the SAME thing over the years? Hell, several ex-coaches (most notably Jimmy Johnson on Fox) have come out and SAID that they've done it in the past. There's all sorts of stuff like this going on in sports, period. Every single pro baseball team has a guy in the stands with binoculars, trying to steal the signs the catcher is sending to the pitcher...which is why they switch signals up regularly. NFL teams have been changing their signals regularly for years...you think they started doing that for kicks? Of course not...they knew they needed to keep their signals from becoming predictable, because they knew a lot of teams were filming them.

I'm not saying I agree with this stuff, I simply think it's ridiculous that one team is being raked over the coals for something that common sense tells you MANY teams (likely including the Jets, since Mangini was probably pulling the same crap once he took over there...after all, he didn't feel the need to 'come clean' with he was the Pats defensive co-ordinator. No, he waited until suddenly it might affect his new team) have been doing for a long time.

Ah yes, the old it's ok to do wrong because other people do too excuse. We all used it in grade school, no sense in growing up. Politicians use it, crminals use it, we all use it at some point I guess. Makes us feel justified to know others are no better then we are, which of course also means we are no better then thay are as well.

Do you think we will ever learn that someone elses mistake is not our excuse?

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
NFL could have made an important statement by disqualifying (giving losses) the Patriots for one or more games or perhaps the season.

For what? For taping signals in the first half of the first game and not even looking at them? Why is over a milion dollars in fines and the loss of a first round draft pick not the correct punishment?

How do you know they did not look at them? And what is this BS about the first half of the first game?

The NFL The stated that the penalty was for the Patriots totality of conduct and not only for their actions against the Jets.

Here is an interesting article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... index.html
The Giants will beat them and everyone will laugh. Because all the Patriots fans will just jump on the new bandwagon right?

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
NFL could have made an important statement by disqualifying (giving losses) the Patriots for one or more games or perhaps the season.

For what? For taping signals in the first half of the first game and not even looking at them? Why is over a milion dollars in fines and the loss of a first round draft pick not the correct punishment?

How do you know they did not look at them? And what is this BS about the first half of the first game?

They didn't look at them because the guy taping was caught at halftime. The tape was consficated before he got locker room.

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward



For what? For taping signals in the first half of the first game and not even looking at them? Why is over a milion dollars in fines and the loss of a first round draft pick not the correct punishment?

How do you know they did not look at them? And what is this BS about the first half of the first game?

They didn't look at them because the guy taping was caught at halftime. The tape was consficated before he got locker room.

Maybe the guys who were filming the signals looked at the tape during penalties and timeouts. Do you know nobody looked at the tapes?

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: ORANGE


How do you know they did not look at them? And what is this BS about the first half of the first game?

They didn't look at them because the guy taping was caught at halftime. The tape was consficated before he got locker room.

Maybe the guys who were filming the signals looked at the tape during penalties and timeouts. Do you know nobody looked at the tapes?

My mistake. The tape was consficated at the end of the first quarter. It was in the camera the guy was filming with. It provided no benefit at all.

"During his investigation, Goodell determined that because the tape was seized before the end of the first quarter, it did not affect the Patriots’ 38-14 victory over the Jets."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/sport ... nd&emc=rss

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward




They didn't look at them because the guy taping was caught at halftime. The tape was consficated before he got locker room.

Maybe the guys who were filming the signals looked at the tape during penalties and timeouts. Do you know nobody looked at the tapes?

My mistake. The tape was consficated at the end of the first quarter. It was in the camera the guy was filming with. It provided no benefit at all.

"During his investigation, Goodell determined that because the tape was seized before the end of the first quarter, it did not affect the Patriots’ 38-14 victory over the Jets."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/sport ... nd&emc=rss

That does not mean that nobody looked at it as you stated. It also does not say they did not have video from their last game against the Jets that they did review for this game.

Since you are so high on what Goodell said then you should be the first to admit that he stated the Patriots cheated. [:)]

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: ORANGE



Maybe the guys who were filming the signals looked at the tape during penalties and timeouts. Do you know nobody looked at the tapes?

My mistake. The tape was consficated at the end of the first quarter. It was in the camera the guy was filming with. It provided no benefit at all.

"During his investigation, Goodell determined that because the tape was seized before the end of the first quarter, it did not affect the Patriots’ 38-14 victory over the Jets."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/sport ... nd&emc=rss

That does not mean that nobody looked at it as you stated. It also does not say they did not have video from their last game against the Jets that they did review for this game.

Since you are so high on what Goodell said then you should be the first to admit that he stated the Patriots cheated. [:)]

They tried to that is certain. But they didn't gain an advantage in the game from their attempt so I think the punishment was fair.
Considering you can see the opposing coaches across the field and can chart the signals by hand if you like it seems that taping would be unnecessary in the first place.

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward




My mistake. The tape was consficated at the end of the first quarter. It was in the camera the guy was filming with. It provided no benefit at all.

"During his investigation, Goodell determined that because the tape was seized before the end of the first quarter, it did not affect the Patriots’ 38-14 victory over the Jets."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/sport ... nd&emc=rss

That does not mean that nobody looked at it as you stated. It also does not say they did not have video from their last game against the Jets that they did review for this game.

Since you are so high on what Goodell said then you should be the first to admit that he stated the Patriots cheated. [:)]

They tried to that is certain. But they didn't gain an advantage in the game from their attempt so I think the punishment was fair.
Considering you can see the opposing coaches across the field and can chart the signals by hand if you like it seems that taping would be unnecessary in the first place.

They cheated. That is a fact. The videos were better because they could zoom in and out and then they would film the scoreboard where they had the time, down and yards to get a first down. We'll see how they play in the Superbowl.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: ORANGE


That does not mean that nobody looked at it as you stated. It also does not say they did not have video from their last game against the Jets that they did review for this game.

Since you are so high on what Goodell said then you should be the first to admit that he stated the Patriots cheated. [:)]

They tried to that is certain. But they didn't gain an advantage in the game from their attempt so I think the punishment was fair.
Considering you can see the opposing coaches across the field and can chart the signals by hand if you like it seems that taping would be unnecessary in the first place.

They cheated. That is a fact. The videos were better because they could zoom in and out and then they would film the scoreboard where they had the time, down and yards to get a first down. We'll see how they play in the Superbowl.

Perhaps. Then again how many pairs of eyes could you hire for a few hundred dollars and the chance to stand on the sidelines with the Pats and record evey detail of the oppositions coaching staff?

I hope you bet the farm on the Giants/Pack game like i said![:)]

[CJMello63]

ORIGINAL: ORANGE

ORIGINAL: sulla05

The Pack didn't show much at all, which is bad news for the Giants. Seeing as it went into OT.

As far as " gunslinger mode" I agree completely. But,you have to put the blame straight on the coach, He calls the plays. It seems instead of going with the Packs usual short yardage pass plays he is the one who picked the long plays. It almost seems to me that the worst play for the Pack was the 90 yard TD. Somehow Mccarthy got it into his head that the Pack could do that all night. It is true that the Giants were throwing the ball, but that was for 10-15 yarders. You can't expect too many 30 yard catches with a ball that feels like a frozen brick.

If the Pack had played the same game plan as was usual this year, it might have been a different story. Only thing I'm a little miffed about is the lack of calls against the Giants for doing the same things. Twice Favre got flattened after he let go of the ball but they only called it agaist the Pack.

The really startling thing about the Patriots game was there was not a single penalty called. Giant fans beware the Pats are the darlings now and I believe if Giants play them like they did GB the Giants will end up with 10-12 pealty calls against them.

But anyway good luck Giants.

Remember the Patriots had a hard time scoring against this defense so the Pack was overmatched.

Pats are going down in the Superbowl in front of a huge audience.

Not in the 2nd half of the Pats game. I count 22 points. Total of 38.

[sullafelix]

Well it looks like with a possible Senate invetigation and now more allegations of supposed against the rules taping, who knows where this will go. I wish the NFL rules and regulations on these matters were spelled out clearly. Obviously every team watches films of opponents so where is the line. To also blame it on a new employee that supposedly did it all on his own and no one knew he was doing it, really doesn't seem plausible. I know that my bosses have always known where I was and what I was doing job wise. I can't fathom the conversation " hey Bill where have you been the games half over". " Oh I was taping the Jets coaches signals". He just happens to do this for a full half all on his own and no one on the Pats wonders where this employee is or what he is doing. If they weren't going to use them and he did it on his own then why when the Pats found out about it didn't they inform the NFL and hand over the tapes and fire the guy . Why did it take someone else to blow the whistle? If I was in the Pats mangament I know I would have treated the incident like a nuclear meltdown. 

[CJMello63]

A Senate investigation into a NFL rule issue is a joke. Face time for an old fart. What's next? Finding the game ball from the last World Series? Did Palp's dog really chew it up. Our tax dollars need to know!

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

And, really, don't you guys think quite a few teams have done the SAME thing over the years? Hell, several ex-coaches (most notably Jimmy Johnson on Fox) have come out and SAID that they've done it in the past. There's all sorts of stuff like this going on in sports, period. Every single pro baseball team has a guy in the stands with binoculars, trying to steal the signs the catcher is sending to the pitcher...which is why they switch signals up regularly. NFL teams have been changing their signals regularly for years...you think they started doing that for kicks? Of course not...they knew they needed to keep their signals from becoming predictable, because they knew a lot of teams were filming them.

I'm not saying I agree with this stuff, I simply think it's ridiculous that one team is being raked over the coals for something that common sense tells you MANY teams (likely including the Jets, since Mangini was probably pulling the same crap once he took over there...after all, he didn't feel the need to 'come clean' with he was the Pats defensive co-ordinator. No, he waited until suddenly it might affect his new team) have been doing for a long time.

e SAME thing over the years? Hell, several ex-coaches (most notably Jimmy Johnson on Fox) have come out and SAID that they've done it in the past. There's all sorts of stuff like this going on in sports, period. Every single pro baseball team has a guy in the stands with binoculars, trying to steal the signs the catcher is sending to the pitcher...which is why they switch signals up regularly. NFL teams have been changing their signals regularly for years...you think they started doing that for kicks? Of course not...they knew they needed to keep their signals from becoming predictable, because they knew a lot of teams were filming them.

I'm not saying I agree with this stuff, I simply think it's ridiculous that one team is being raked over the coals for something that common sense tells you MANY teams (likely including the Jets, since Mangini was probably pulling the same crap once he took over there...after all, he didn't feel the need to 'come clean' with he was the Pats defensive co-coordinator. No, he waited until suddenly it might affect his new team) have been doing for a long time.

Looks like the Pats couldn't cheat as much in the Superbowl so they were lost and it showed. I do like how they went for the cheesy 12 men on the field penalty to get a first down they could not get out of their offense. Then they went for a TD on 4th down when they were in field goal range. That field goal would have made the game a tie. [:D]

The pats were beat by a clearly better team and they looked lost and confused.