Flying torches

[OG_Gleep]

History is written by the victors. Which is why most people think we beat Germany.

[RGIJN]

ORIGINAL: OG_Gleep

History is written by the victors. Which is why most people think we beat Germany.

instead of the Russians... [&:]

[AcePylut]

Which plane would you rather fly in, the F4F or the A6M2?

Me, hands down the Zero. It's a far better aircraft than the Wildcat.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

.... It's a far better aircraft than the Wildcat.

Except when it comes to pilot protection as I would like to live to see the end of the war. Besides, sitting in a Zero right behind a spare fuel tank w/o seals would make me "nervous in the service."

[tocaff]

Does anybody know the survival rate of pilots between the Zero and Wildcat for the time frame of UV?

[Ike99]

Something you won´t see on The History Channel...

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Does anybody know the survival rate of pilots between the Zero and Wildcat for the time frame of UV?

It might not matter what plane you're in as both Nazi Germany and IJ "flew" their pilots into the ground.

[Ike99]

¨Group¨ victory markings...

Zero with tail number 3-173
12AG, Soryu

The victory markings on the plane pertain to this specific aircraft. Not the group, Not any specific pilot but are credited to the plane.

Pilots credited with the markings are...

Hideo Oishi
Hatsumasa Yamatani
Miyakuni Kamidaira
Seiji Hiramoto

[tocaff]

Still no answer about the survival rate of the 2 different ac?  If I was a pilot I know that I'd opt, if given a choice, for a plane that would bring me home.

Something not seen on the History Channel?  Come on Ike we all know that the shows they do aren't top quality or exactly what you could call totally accurate.  All you have to do is read the threads here and in the WITP forum to know that.  Come to think of it Ike's "facts" and the History Channel have much in common.  [:D]

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

¨Group¨ victory markings...

Zero with tail number 3-173
12AG, Soryu

The victory markings on the plane pertain to this specific aircraft. Not the group, Not any specific pilot but are credited to the plane ...

OK, but if one icon = one downed plane, I count about 15 kills, not 50. The other photo -- w/stars on the fuselage -- was 6, not 60.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Which plane would you rather fly in, the F4F or the A6M2?

Me, hands down the Zero. It's a far better aircraft than the Wildcat.

Me, hands down the Wildcat. It WAS a far better aircraft than the Zero.

The Wildcat didn't just "hold the line" as our brainwashed comrade from the southern hemisphere would have you believe. It turned the tide of the air war well before the second generation fighters arrived in the theater. This is documented by every historian who has written about the campaign.

I have yet to figure out what Ike thinks he is accomplishing with his pictorial campaign here. He couldn't win the argument in the other thread so he startes a new thread with a seies of irrelavant photos that prove nothing more than that Japan had aces. Nothing about the historical fact that Japan had aces is in dispute here Ike. Nice try at blowing a smokescreen to obsfuctaa the issue though!


After I provided a series of qoutes from his favorite ace illustrating how much difficulty three Zero pilots were having shooting down a lone Wildcat and how amazed his favorite ace was at the incredible ruggedness of his opponets aircraft, Ike responds with the completion of the quote wherein this top ace finally manages to down teh Wildcat as some kind of proof for his argument that the Zero was superior.

The simple fact that it took FOUR Zeros to down the lone Wildcat and that only the intervention of a FOURTH Zero piloted by an ACE who was a recognized master of his craft finally resulted in the destruction of the Wildcat SHOULD show clearly to anyone with functional grey matter between their ears that the Wildcat wasn't vanquished because the Zero was superior, but rather because the ACE was superior.

That it took four Zeros to down the lone Wildcat should be an embarrassment to anyone foolish enough to argue that the Zero was superior.

Keep up the lame attempts to disprove the facts Ike...it's immensely entertaining! [8|]

[Ike99]

The Wildcat didn't just "hold the line" as our brainwashed comrade from the southern hemisphere would have you believe. It turned the tide of the air war well before the second generation fighters arrived in the theater.

Me brainwashed? How many Japanese Aces do you see profiled on the history channel Hans! [;)] Your the one brainwashed with the totally one sided stories and profiles of American Aces and how the Wildcat was superior to a Zero. [8|]

Here is a good Ace for you Hans. Nope, you won´t see him or his story on the History channel...

Japanese Ace, Isamu Miyasaki
13 Victories

Miyasaki could have claimed 14 kills. After following behind a badly damaged Hellcat he flew up next to it, looked at the pilot...

Miyasaki-¨he had such a pitiful expression on his face...I didn´t have the heart to shoot him down, so I let him go.¨

The American pilot turned out to be Ens Fletcher Jones from VF-10

[HansBolter]

Show me where I provided a profile of an American ace!

You are starting to go off the deep end with your irrational ranting and raving Ike.

And what exactly does your apparent obsession with the History Channel have to do with anything?

[tocaff]

I believe that Ike doesn't like the History Channel because it gives the American slant on things.  Of course this is the case as almost every show is produced in the USA for an American audience. 

When THC showed the story of Juan & Eva Peron was that OK Ike?  I mean that was about Argentina and it's an interesting story that we won't get into as it'll probably upset you. 

Do you expect an American TV station to produce shows that glorify men that killed Americans in a war?  That would be dumb!  Do Argentina's TV stations ever produce any shows about the Falklands War?  Yeah, I know you call them Malvinas.  I wouldn't expect your stations to tell the British side of the story or glorify English combatants.

Get real and look at the big picture for once. 

Ike comes from a country that had strong Axis Power ties during WW2 and we don't know what they get taught in their schools in history classes so we should give him some latitude for always siding with the Japanese side of things. 

[SuluSea]

Is you radio still picking up broadcasts of the Zero Hour or something?





The Jap pilots scarred shaming themselves or their shameless piece of trash emperor were noted for their wild imaginations, if they called the Neosho attack a "carrier sinking" who knows how many small planes they claimed to have shot down turned out to be false. Let's not forget it took the Oiler a few days to finally succumb.

No menial claims you make will ever change the fact that " Invincible " [:'(]  IJ forces got steamrolled across thousands of miles of ocean  in one of history's monumental mismatches between warring nations.

I think you may be a little late hoping for a divine wind to wipe out the Big Blue Fleet but there's always the static filled recordings of the Zero Hour for your  gratification.

Enjoy life my friend no matter what means you chose to cope with the beat down. [:D]

[Ike99]

I believe that Ike doesn't like the History Channel because it gives the American slant on things. Of course this is the case as almost every show is produced in the USA for an American audience.

That doesn´t have a lot to do with Zeros and Wildcats Todd except for this...

I would not say the aircraft carrier Veinticinco de Mayo was equal or better than the Hermes and Invincible because it wasn´t for obvious technical reasons.

The same applies here.

Hans, is trying to claim the Wildcat, a plane that had a slower climb rate, slower top speed, less manuverable and had less firepower is a superior plane to a Zero that enjoys all these advantages. It´s a ridiculous notion. It´s revisionist history because the Wildcat had a star on it and not a red circle.

His reason being the Wildcat dove faster and took more damage.

Wonderful, a B17 enjoys these same advantages over a Zero also. So he can take the ¨B¨ off of B-17 and add an ¨F¨. Now he has the ¨F-17¨ and it is a superior fighter over Zeros too because it takes more damage and dives better a well. He can even add it has better firepower than a Zero too. [:D] [:D] [:D]

[RGIJN]

Wow IKE, you returned to ignite new fires. I really have much sympathy with the underdogs (IJN) and full of admiration for those aces. But you indeed miss the mark. As Tocaff explained already... just read his statement carefullyand let up!
Am still not certain if your boobyish debauch is a delight just to lean back and laugh about or a simple embarrassment to brisk up over.

[RGIJN]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

I believe that Ike doesn't like the History Channel because it gives the American slant on things. Of course this is the case as almost every show is produced in the USA for an American audience.

That doesn´t have a lot to do with Zeros and Wildcats Todd except for this...

I would not say the aircraft carrier Veinticinco de Mayo was equal or better than the Hermes and Invincible because it wasn´t for obvious technical reasons.

The same applies here.

Hans, is trying to claim the Wildcat, a plane that had a slower climb rate, slower top speed, less manuverable and had less firepower is a superior plane to a Zero that enjoys all these advantages. It´s a ridiculous notion. It´s revisionist history because the Wildcat had a star on it and not a red circle.

His reason being the Wildcat dove faster and took more damage.

Wonderful, a B17 enjoys these same advantages over a Zero also. So he can take the ¨B¨ off of B-17 and add an ¨F¨. Now he has the ¨F-17¨ and it is a superior fighter over Zeros too because it takes more damage and dives better a well. He can even add it has better firepower than a Zero too. [:D] [:D] [:D]

CAN you decide for either the "ace" subject or the "Zero vs. Wildcat" suject??? Both things have NOTHING TO DO with each other!!! It seems you do not get this... Your argumentation is just quite elusive Ike.
I always enjoyed your posts and illustrations in the AAR section. Would have been better to keep focus on that instead of this cockeyed threads.

[Ike99]

Your right RGIJN, Hans derailed me with talk of Wildcat superiority. I´ll go back to Japanese pilots now.

[OG_Gleep]

I quite enjoy these threads myself. You guys have to admit that the stuff we are fed, particularly about our involvement in WW2 (the war started in 1941 for most Americans) is one sided. But the party line is that the Zero dominated until the after guadacanal. Theres a respect hate thing going on with much of the stuff being put out.
 
I'm from Hawaii, most locals didn't really forgive the Japanese (in general) until after their economy fell out...and they stopped buying up the island.