Availability of smart munitions

[PongoDeMer]

I have just finished playing the Fortress Keflavik scenario (Nato) from the GIUK battleset. I won, using two strategms: the first was by changing the Phantoms to the air to air load-out, which gave me enough fighters to win the air battle. The second was to use the Orions stand-off capability to hit the Soviet amphibious force repeatedly with Harpoon. Eventually their missile magazines became depleted, with inevitable consequences. The NATO surface group attacked with Tomahawk and then the Corsairs and the Phantoms (re-armed with guided munitions) delivered the final coup de grace.

But how realistic is all this? The ships were of course limited to the munitions contained in their mounts, but there is no such restriction in the game with regard to air bases and carriers. Consequently the Orions managed to expend 128 Harpoons. Perhaps some forum member can tell me how much Harpoons are worth a pop, but whatever the answer is, I know they don't come cheap and there simply cannot be an unlimited supply. I very much doubt that the airbase in question would have had that many in stock.

Setting a limitation on smart munitions is probably on a lot of people's wish list. However, until a suitable patch comes out, it should be possible to do this manually, by assigning a given quantity to airbases and carriers as appropriate, keeping count of reloads, and not straying beyond the given number.

Can anyone on this forum suggest viable numbers of smart munitions that can be held in carriers and at airbases? A lot will depend on the nation involved, the date, and of course how far into the conflict a scenario is set which will influence how much ammo is likely to have been expended. To take a couple of examples at random, I would expect the Soviet Navy circa early 80s to have plenty of munitions, whereas the Royal Navy of today, would (due to draconian defence cuts) have much more limited quantities.

Over to the Forum, and once again,thank you for your replies.

PongoDeMer

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: PongoDeMer

Setting a limitation on smart munitions is probably on a lot of people's wish list. However, until a suitable patch comes out, it should be possible to do this manually, by assigning a given quantity to airbases and carriers as appropriate, keeping count of reloads, and not straying beyond the given number.

Can anyone on this forum suggest viable numbers of smart munitions that can be held in carriers and at airbases? A lot will depend on the nation involved, the date, and of course how far into the conflict a scenario is set which will influence how much ammo is likely to have been expended. To take a couple of examples at random, I would expect the Soviet Navy circa early 80s to have plenty of munitions, whereas the Royal Navy of today, would (due to draconian defence cuts) have much more limited quantities.

I agree that this capability is quite in high demand. Unfortunately, it is not yet available for HCE and is only possible in ANW. I remember visiting a website documenting the number of weapons sold to various countries. I can't remember the URL. Perhaps you can find it with a bit of searching.

When designing ANW scens, I sometimes just playtest the scenario with Unlimited Munitions available. At the end of the game, a list of weapons expenditures tells me how many of each type of weapon was fired. I then load my ammo dumps with only about 70% of those weapons I actually fired because I want to give a tough game to the player. You might try the same for HCE scens.

1) Play the scen and track the expenditures
2) Assign a lesser amount for your second second
[;)]
If you had someone who was willing to cooperate with you, you could each customize scenarios in this fashion for the other fellow to play. That way, you only spoil 1/2 your scenarios and get the experience the other 1/2 freshly.

Is this method 'realistic'? Probably not, but it will definitely be FUN, and isn't that the point of the game? [;)]

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: hermanhum
When designing ANW scens, I sometimes just playtest the scenario with Unlimited Munitions available. At the end of the game, a list of weapons expenditures tells me how many of each type of weapon was fired. I then load my ammo dumps with only about 70% of those weapons I actually fired because I want to give a tough game to the player. You might try the same for HCE scens.

This is as good a suggestion as I can think of.

[TonyE]

From fas.org (TonyE ducks), a little over a half million dollars per missile (I'm thinking that is earlier variants of the Harpoon).  Quantity at some unspecified time: Navy: 5,983; Air Force: 90 (poor Air Force, I always liked the Harpoon armed B-52).  So there were a lot of Harpoons around, but not so much for many other weapons as you've noted. 
 
We're leaning heavily towards a points-based logistics model and are getting somewhat close to a complete discussion (39 posts and counting in the beta area where we nail such things down).  So a Harpoon missile might cost 10 ammo points, a TLAM 20, a JDAM 2, a Mk82 1 (totally off the cuff examples).  Your airfield, port, AOE will have a certain number of points and you get to allocate them pretty much as you wish.  That does leave the possibility of 'buying' unrealistic numbers of fancy weapons.  But overall I think it is shaping up to be a solution uniquely suited to HC.
 
 

[PongoDeMer]

I have another query.  In the event of war, would Boeing and other manufacturers of smart munitions be able to keep up with demand for Harpoon?  Without compromising the Official Secrets Act (or U.S. equivalent) can anyone say whether or not there are any contingency plans for wartime mass production?
 
I noted that the figure of 5983 Harpoons held by the USN has been quoted  I am guessing that numbers held by the RN would be a fifth to a seventh of that total.  Very roughly, what proportion of these would be sea launched, submarine launched and air launched?
 
My rule of thumb at the moment is to allow land and carrier based aircraft two Harpoon (or equivalent) loadouts per scenario.  I replayed the Keflavik scenario according to this ruling... and won.
 
I note with interest from your posts that limitations on supplies of smart munitions for HCE seem to be on the cards.  Presumably this will be included in the next patch. When (roughly) is this due to come out?
 
Many thanks,
 
PongoDeMer

[TonyE]

That would be a herculean presumption to say limitation on aircraft weaponry (and others) will make it into the next patch.  I wouldn't expect such a feature for a minimum of a year, possibly much longer.