Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
ORIGINAL: NCSUforest
There is one one rule in war - The victor get to write the history of it.
ORIGINAL: ool
Actually to get the FACTS out let me explain.
A)The Russians annexed Estonia. Prior to the German invasion.
B)Several of my family members I'm told got the 2Am knock at the door and were never seen again. NKVD specials.
C)When The Germans came they were seen as liberators, got to be better than the Soviets they thought.
D) Having had members of the family disappear my father chose to join the Estonian army.
E) Later when the Germans formed the 20th Waffen SS my fathers unit was folded into the new unit.There wasn't exactly a choice. Your conscripted end of story.
F)Nuremburg war crimes trials found that conscripted people weren't Nazi's. Their reasoning was that the members of the units weren't Nazi indoctrinated, just drafted. I would call the Nuremburg war trials a pretty thorough and credible body to make such a ruling.
G) Why do I use the graphics? In respect for those who naievely thought that by fighting they could someday gain Estonian independence. Hey these are the same guys that in every country think there is glory in war and it will be over before they can get a chance to fight. Well what do you expect from walking hormones?
H) One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Can't do anything about peoples prejudices.
I)I have no use for Communist, Nazi, or especially right wing American Republican ideology.
Sometimes a icon is used just as a sign of respect for the fallen.
Anyway that's why i have what i have. Now if we can get by the two year old temper tantrums of "the voice of authority", when is AE coming out?
ORIGINAL: Japan
ORIGINAL: ool
American situational ignorance is legendary!
I fully agree with you here.
I think that if one in the US would have a national educational system like we have here, were education is for free, regardless of what School or University you go to, then lawmakers could forced more History and International and Society related educated into the Americans school system, something who would made the average less Ignorant and less Arrogant.
ORIGINAL: Feltan
I really, really, really, really, really, really, don't care when AE is release. (Thereby subtracting six weeks from the delivery date.)
Regards,
Feltan
ORIGINAL: Japan
ORIGINAL: USS America
ORIGINAL: ool
H) One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Can't do anything about peoples prejudices.
Sorry, I can't let that garbage be repeated over and over until everyone believes it. A freedom fighter is not a terrorist, and a terrorist is not a freedom fighter.
Freedom fighters attack, fight, and kill armed forces of a power who is keeping them under it's control against their wishes. Yes, anytime there is fighting innocent people can and do end up being hurt and killed. That is always a terrible and regrettable thing. [:(]
Terrorists attack, fight, and kill civilian men, women, and children ON PURPOSE to scare the civilian population into letting them have their way. They do it with no remorse or regret. [:-]
When everyone in this world stops making excuses for the actions of terrorists, we can finally start making progress against them. [8|]
This is a whole bunch of Bull..
Its typical western propaganda, sorry for using that word but it is the truth.
1. A Freedom Fighter is an Illegal combatant, you can claim what you like, but once a Nation has capitulated ALL Armed resistance is an ACT OF TERRORISM!
This is defined by the Geneva Convention, and by multiple International Treaties, both new ones and old ones.
If you say anything different, you are not talking facts, but opinions!
2. We have (like it or not) created Terrorism. Since the Brittish occupations back in the 1600 scenery to Western Policy's of the modern world, all has contributed to Terrorism.
3. If you truly think that war's are fought without deliberate killing of civilians, then I think you are way off!
Everyone kill's civilians deliberately, we did it over and over again in WW2, and we do it over and over again today in Gaza. We will do it any time the situation require us to.
AND if we got involved in a major world war aigan, then we would kill civilians in massive quantity's (aigan), but now in the modern world we would do it with Nuclear wepons.
So, I do not see the "problem" with Terrorism, it's War like any other war, but fought with primitive weapons.
You can see this as "their" way of doing Fire bombings of Tokyo... Its imply just that they have less resources, and they are no country.
Why are they no Country? Well, if they were they would been sanctioned to death due to their beliefs, so the only way for them to wage war is by Terrorism.
Given the right situations, we would all been Terrorists.
Sometimes in Defencive War of what we consider to be our land (ie. Freedom Fighter as you see it) and somethimes as in Offencive War (ie, General Terror as you see it).
Now personally I do not support ANY form for Agressive War, regardless of in what form it is conducted.
ORIGINAL: sven6345789
i guess there are different views regarding freedom fighters here.
you can consider people freedom fighters who join the army of another country (like for example the members of the foreign legion who defended Bir Hacheim (do not know if i go the name right, mean the fort defended against Rommel), consisting of Germans (some Jews, for example) to fight against their country. You can also regard De Gaulles army in this way. If they win, they are freedom fighters, if the loose, traitors. (see the estonians...)
What USS America is talking about are Resistance fighters. Here there are clear restrictions. They have to be marked as combatants to be considered an armed force. They have to be marked by badges or similar. Wether they are freedom fighters is completely dependend upon the viewpoint you take. If they fight for what you believe in, you call them freedom fighters, if not , terrorists.
Most Resistance fighters do not mark themselves as armed forces (US Civil war, Missouri is the perfect example, you can also take Afghanistan or Vietnam). Here it becomes difficult. How do you deal with them? How do you tell them apart from the rest of the population? What do they fight for? They fight for what you believe in? Again, freedom fighters, ok a little dirty, but if they win no one asks. They fight against what you believe in? they are clearly criminals and terrorists.
It is a) completely dependend upon the personal viewpoint and b) dependend upon who wins the war (unrestricted submarine warfare is a good example for this one, or terror bombing); The winner decides what is morally correct. Crimes like Auschwitz are of course exempt from this.
regarding the Waffen-SS, she was delared a criminal organisation by the Nürnberg trials. This includes the WHOLE Waffen-SS. They just did not bother to prosecute everyone of the 950000 involved.
ORIGINAL: ool
Well USS America what do you call the Vietnam massacre at My Lai. Hope I spelled it right. How about the American illegal invasion of Iraq? The hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's killed by your good old boys? Get to the time period you obviously don't have a clue of what your good old allies the Soviets did even before the Germans invaded. American situational ignorance is legendary! Only surpassed by their egos and intergalactically big mouths! Which why most Americans come to Canada first to buy back packs with Canadian flags before going abroad.
ORIGINAL: Japan
ORIGINAL: ool
American situational ignorance is legendary!
I fully agree with you here.
I think that if one in the US would have a national educational system like we have here, were education is for free, regardless of what School or University you go to, then lawmakers could forced more History and International and Society related educated into the Americans school system, something who would made the average less Ignorant and less Arrogant.
ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
Another thread that never should have been born.
