Labor and Development times

[balto]

Okay I am still goofing around as Prussia in 1803 with Advanced Economy. Another Economy test. Please do get annoyed, I am just trying to understand all this great stuff.

This time I was testing the to see if I can figure out Labor and what it has to do with Development time

I picked Masovia just for the heck of it. This test would work on any province.

It has 3 Men and Factories level 2. So that should work out to 6 Men (3+50%+50%). Even if I am wrong with this, it does not matter, I still have two questions/problems below.

Masovia has level 2 Walls, Bank, and Factory. I put all of the Labor in Development.

To get Walls and Bank to level 3 – each needs 4 Labor. To get Factory to level 3, that would take 12 Labor.

The problems are: (1) to develop each of the three takes 3 turns despite Factory requiring 300% more labor then Wall and Bank; and (2) Factory should be 2 turns [12 Labor/6 Men], and Walls and Banks should be 2/3 turn [4 Labor/6 Men].

Even if I have the math wrong in problem #2.., I think problem #1 is the more strange.

Am I missing something?

[Joram]

I don't think anyone gets annoyed for people who are trying to understand and improve the game. 
 
I do not believe you are missing anything, that is by design though I do believe the length of time it takes to improve a province does increase quicker the, higher you are trying to improve it.  i.e. it may take 12 months to improve to level 1-3 but it will take 15 months for 4, 18 months for 5 and so on ... (those aren't exact, I'm doing that as an example).

[balto]

Hi Joram, there is a slider for Development.  Are you saying that no matter how much MEN you commit to DEVELOPMENT, it does not matter becasue Development time is a factor of what the level is and not how much MEN you allocate to it?
 
If that is what you are saying and that is correct.., then I think that anything committed to Development is basically resources flushed down the toilet if the development times are set in stone. 
 
Please give me some input.
 
Thank you.

[Joram]

Umm, my mistake, I thought you were talking about something else I guess. I only work with simple economy and missed the fact that you were talking advanced.   Someone else will have to comment.  Sorry.

[balto]

Simple Economy! .., that is for fighters.  Advanced economy is for lovers.

[balto]

Could someone help me with the above question I had at the top of this post.
 
Thank you again very much

[morganbj]

There is a slider called Labor.  When you push that slider to the right, the amount of time for developments to be completed will decrease, no matter what the level of development is.  But, the relationship is not linear.  In other words, there are diminishing returns when you go from 50 to 75 percent labor allocation.  MEN are used to calcualte how much labor is available in the province that can be allocated by the sliders, but you don't control them directly.  Men are related to your population and grow or shrink depending how many units you've built, your draft rate, and food availability.
 
Does any of that make sense?
 

[Mus]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

There is a slider called Labor.  When you push that slider to the right, the amount of time for developments to be completed will decrease, no matter what the level of development is.  But, the relationship is not linear.  In other words, there are diminishing returns when you go from 50 to 75 percent labor allocation.  MEN are used to calcualte how much labor is available in the province that can be allocated by the sliders, but you don't control them directly.  Men are related to your population and grow or shrink depending how many units you've built, your draft rate, and food availability.

Does any of that make sense?

I dont think thats right.

There is a slider specifically labeled Development. Placing men in there greatly speeds up the rate at which Developments are completed.

Putting men into the Labor slider helps creates more resource called Labor which is consumed when you build units.

ORIGINAL: balto

If that is what you are saying and that is correct.., then I think that anything committed to Development is basically resources flushed down the toilet if the development times are set in stone.

The development time for any given improvement is some set number of months (I believe as you talked about in another thread that Roads and some other factors might effect it as well) and has a cost in resources to start production. Placing men into the Development slider will reduce the time it takes to complete the improvement.

Whats weird about the development slider is you can place a great number of men into and see no or little reduction in the amount of time till completion, then suddenly small amounts more start shaving the months off significantly until you reach a point of diminishing returns as with all other sliders.

[morganbj]

Yeah, you're right, I was seeing the sliders differently in my mind. I should have taken a look at the screen before I posted.  But, in any case, I don't really understand what the OP's questions were.
 
To keep it simple:  The Development slider speeds up developments with diminishing returns after 50% allocation.
 
The Labor slider adds labor to the overall "national" pool that is used to pay for developments, troops, ships, etc.  There are diminishing returns with that slider after 50%, too.
 

[Mus]

I think balto is thinking the Factories increase the amount of labor points you place into various categories, a problem from using the same word for a resource and for something you allocate to various production sliders maybe?
 
The "labor" that is increased by 50% by every level of Factories is the labor resource consumed when building new units, not manpower to put into the sliders.
 
Hope that answers the question.

[balto]

Mus,, exactly and you are correct, thank you!!  Factory only increases the production of Labor; not Labor productivity.., thanks!!  That was my question #2. 

[ericbabe]

The Labor cost in the tool-tip refers to the Labor you pay from your national stockpile, but it doesn't have anything directly to do with the time required for the new development.

[jhdeerslayer]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

The Labor cost in the tool-tip refers to the Labor you pay from your national stockpile, but it doesn't have anything directly to do with the time required for the new development.

I'm playing the simple economy - So does the Labor cost apply each turn for a Development or only when you first start the build. Can't seem to find that exact point in the manual so far (nice manual by the way). As a noob I started with Sweden, developed a Barracks and noticed my Labor went to Red next turn so made me wonder why...

[morganbj]

The labor cost to "buy" the development comes only once.  So, if something costs 12 Money and 4 Labor, you pay that once.
 
The slider takes resources away from other things and puts priority on the completion development, reducing the time it takes for it to be completed.  I do this often to reduce something from 30 months down to, say, 12.  Thirty months is a long time to wait for something when 25% (or whatever) slider on development can reduce it by amost two thirds.

[jhdeerslayer]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

The labor cost to "buy" the development comes only once.  So, if something costs 12 Money and 4 Labor, you pay that once.

The slider takes resources away from other things and puts priority on the completion development, reducing the time it takes for it to be completed.  I do this often to reduce something from 30 months down to, say, 12.  Thirty months is a long time to wait for something when 25% (or whatever) slider on development can reduce it by amost two thirds.

Thank you sir and I assume this works the same for Simple Economy too as far as only "once". Now I need to go understand why my Labor turned Red so quickly after one turn. I made Finland a Protectorate and maybe something there I don't understand. Much to digest in what appears to be a sweet game!

[morganbj]

Yes, it's the same, except, of course, there are fewer resources to be spent.
 
If you have a new protectorate that formerly provided labor that could be the culprit.  I'm not absolutely positive (I've never looked to see), but I don't think protectorates provide labor to your "home" country.

[Anthropoid]

Check out the More Questions thread. Lots of discussion on this stuff in there.

[jhdeerslayer]

Thanks gents.