Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

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TommyBoy84
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Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by TommyBoy84 »

CaptDave and I are nearing the end of December 1941 in our PBEM. I'm the allies. After the PH attack, I send the Enterprise and Lexington south to Suva, and now they're on their ways west towards Sydney. I moved the Saratoga from San Diego out to Pearl. My question is, how should I use the Saratoga at this point? I'd like to keep her patrolling in the central Pacific to protect against raids, but I'm also worried about running her right into a jap sub, or getting her sunk by long range bombers out of Kwajelien.

I have more than enough CA's, CL's and DD's at Pearl to make an effective CV task force. I'm just wondering if I'd be better served protecting Sara and keeping her at Pearl rather than risking her patrolling the central pacific.

What would you do?

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Odin
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by Odin »

Hm, a single carrier is not more than cannon fodder.
 
I my eyes as allied player it is better to have the carriers together and hidden until something really important shows up.
 
 
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TommyBoy84
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by TommyBoy84 »

I tend to follow the philosophy that it's better to keep them separate, so one strike doesn't take out all your existing CV's early in the war.
Ambassador
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by Ambassador »

Separate TFs, but all following a lead TF (surface or ASW) slower than all of them.  That's the best protection, but you can use them separately, just don't hope to achieve too much.
 
If you want to use Sara in the Central Pacific, check the position of the Jap bases, and count the range of the Zeroes from them.  A human player won't send his Betties without escorts, so if you stay outside of escort range, you should not get attacked.  At least not by LBA - if KB is unaccounted for and might be nearby, this is a bad idea.
 
What you could do while waiting for Yorktown is using the Saratoga to beef up the escorts of your convoys, with a lot of the SBD/TBD on naval search/ASW.  Do the same with the other CVs, and once all three/four are grouped (and you got F4F-4 in every fighter squadron), then you may plan some more aggressive action on the fringe of the IJN air cover.
 
Sending the CVs to Australia that early is interesting, but you'll lack some fuel for truly intensive action.  After one or two sorties, you'll run up of gas.  I would only send them there with the first big fuel/supply convoy to Sydney/Brisbane/Noumea.
 
But that's just my two cents.
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JeffroK
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by JeffroK »

Seperate, but in the same hex.

Not 1,000's of miles apart.

I would combine your CV's and then follow the actions you propose.
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khyberbill
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by khyberbill »

A single cv TF can also be useful as an anti-sub tf if your opponent has flooded the area between the West Coast and PH with subs. I use them in conjunction with several TF's with 4-6 DD's to patrol any area where Glens/subs have been observed. I will keep this tf in an area where KB cant sneak up and pick it off.
"Its a dog eat dog world Sammy and I am wearing Milkbone underwear" -Norm.
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marky
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by marky »

indeed, keep them seperate but together with no more than 15 ships in each force. they are indeed lethal to IJN subs. but AVOID a fight with KB till at least June and after the AA upgrades, and concentrate AA escorts. Keep the Zero bonus in mind. bide your time and wait for the opportune moment.
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ChickenOfTheSea
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by ChickenOfTheSea »

Some players will employ commerce raiders between PH and the west coast. A CV task force can seek out and destroy them and their refueling vessels.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen
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AirGriff
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by AirGriff »

Take one carrier and build a TF around it with escorts having good AA values and no destroyers with low endurance ratings (the Flush Decks will slow your flat tops to a crawl).  No prewar BB's in the TF until your fast BB's show up, either.  Do the same for all your fleet carriers.  Have your slowest air combat TF be the lead, with the other air combat TF's following.  Set the lead TF to a max react distance of 6, and the others at 0.  Make sure your TF leaders are aggressive, with the lead TF being the most aggressive.  Keep a very close eye on your TF's as they move around.  If one TF keeps falling behind, then set that one as the leader and see if they stick together.  I have found this to be a good tactic in the first 2 years of the game, and have had great success against KB as early as March '42.  Of course, doing the single carrier TF's drains your capital ship pool considerably.  Enter the Royal Navy!  By mid '43 you have a lot of different options for tactics because you have so many new assets coming on line (assuming you haven't lost many of the originals).  Good luck!
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AirGriff
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by AirGriff »

Forgot to back up what Marky was saying.  Don't ever get within an enemy large base where LBA will get you.  Betty's I think have a max distance of 21, but can only carry torpedo's out to 16, and I believe the Zero's have a range of 13 or 11 depending on the model, so plan accordingly.  Those Betty's and Nells will be the end of you with there bloody torps. 
 
You can take a bit more of a risk with this in '43 if you have a gazillian Hellcats on CAP, but you still don't want to push it. 
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Yamato hugger
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by Yamato hugger »

Stay out of LBA range with a single carrier, that is a given. As for how and where to deploy them, thats entirely up to the JAPANESE player. You must go where he isnt at this point in the war. After you get your 4th, then its decision time. If the Jap player is running a more historical deployment of his carriers (ie not all in 1 blob) then you can divide them - safely - and fight him on even terms. If he is playing "Admiral Deathstar" you can hurt him. 4 US CVs can do a lot of damage as early as March 42 to the KB. Yours come back, his dont.

Then again another trick to use vs "Admiral Deathstar" is to go where he isnt. If he is keeping the KB in the eastern Pacific, then run your carriers under Oz and raid the SRA. If he is in the Indian Ocean, then raid Japan (it amazing how often Jap players leave nothing in Japan proper).
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Barb
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by Barb »

ORIGINAL: AirGriff
Set the lead TF to a max react distance of 6, and the others at 0.

1. Not very good idea. All TFs should be set to react.
( I have tested this in Coral Sea scenario. Yorktown reacted while Lexington stayed where it was. Yorktown was toast, Lexington saved by cloud cover on the afternoon.)
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Nomad
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by Nomad »

What works for me is to have a small SCTF leading the pack. Set all of your ACTFs to do not react and to follow the SCTF. The SCTF will never react towards an enemy ACTF.
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AirGriff
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by AirGriff »

ORIGINAL: Barb

ORIGINAL: AirGriff
Set the lead TF to a max react distance of 6, and the others at 0.

1. Not very good idea. All TFs should be set to react.
( I have tested this in Coral Sea scenario. Yorktown reacted while Lexington stayed where it was. Yorktown was toast, Lexington saved by cloud cover on the afternoon.)


Each to his own, of course, but I'm 6 for 6 on my tactic. I've never had an air combat not follow what it's supposed to be following, though I admit you run the risk of a following TF not keeping up.
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John Lansford
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RE: Need an opinion, NO CAPTDAVE :-)

Post by John Lansford »

I sent a 3 CV TF to Kwajalein early in my AI game (1/42) and sank a pile of ships in the harbor, including Mutsu, while the KB was amusing itself off the coast of Java and Borneo.  With the airfield neutralized, I then took Eniwetok and have built it up into a base big enough to fly 4E bombers out of.  I also occupied Baker Island and then took Tarawa after some recon, and have built it up to put B-17's on as well. 
 
That's isolated Maloelap and threatened Kwajalein so much that I've been seeing TF's of AK's and AP's leaving there every day now, right through my "S-class" subs waiting on them to the west.  So far the KB prefers molesting Darwin and Java, so my carriers are now running around the Central Pacific creating all sorts of mischief.
 
But no, don't send just one CV anywhere in 1942 if you're going within range of LBA or don't know where the KB is.  Keep them in groups of 3 at least and choose your targets carefully.
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