ALLIED ONLY: aztez (A) vs erstad (J) ...2nd ROUND

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: aztez


Intresting. I kind of have divided the submarine warfare for two types. A) convoy raiding and B) defensive/offensive missions which gives me better intel.

Those thoughts are sound. I haven't had the chance to place the subs where I want at the moment since they are everywhere and its needs time to organize/setup.

I'am kind of thinking through the following guidelines.

Pearl Harbour/Midway = All the long legged US submarines based here. I mean those above 10 000 endurance.

You may know this well, but watch out for Argonaut, Narwhal, Nautilus, Dolphin, Cachalot and Cuttlefish. These class subs were built in the early 30s to develop experience in long range fleet submarines and are not front-line boats by 1941. They can probably best be used for special missions (recon, transport, minelaying, etc.) with cautious skippers. Argonaut was purpose built as a minelayer and later converted to a transport sub. She is big and slow...

The Porpoise and later classes are all true fleet boats (except the two Mackerels) although the Navy felt the Porpoise, Salmon and Sargos were not completely adequate with only 4 tubes forward. Doctrine recommended a 3 fish spread (1 leading, 1 center, 1 trailing the target position estimate), so 4 tubes was not considered ideal. The deck armament was also considered too light by many. In any case, these boats gave excellent service.

The Tambors, Gars, Gatos, Balaos and Tenchs are all very similiar and excellent. A good proven design, well built in large numbers, and constantly upgraded with effective technology. You start off the game with 5 Tambors in CENPAC, 1 in San Fran, 1 Gar off Lahiana and a 2 Gars in San Diego. Of course, by now, they are spread all over the map...

Brisbane/Perth/Darwin = Dutch submarines and some S-boats I think the Darwin would the most optium base for subs but it is too hazardous due to the lba threat. Also think it is going to be invaded.

Ceylon = There are no better bases for RN submarines. There are few at the start but they do build up within time. Allies have level 9 port at Colombo.

The S-boats were ancient by the time of the war. The design was based on WWI german subs captured at the war's end. The S-boats just happened to be carrying an older torpedo that worked.

I don't have much experience with the Brit boats in the late war. It will be fun to compare notes

Alaska = Some recon/offensive submarines when I can spare them. The weather is also bad most of year so system damage will build up.

Interested to see how this works for you.

[Sardaukar]

Use those S-boats mercilessly, they start to withdraw 9/42. Not to mention, they have your most reliable torpedoes before late 43. Of course you start to get those lovely Gato-boats, but until Sept 43, torpedo reliability hampers them a bit. Do remember that start of the 1943, Mk14 unreliability drops 20% (80 -> 60)

Straight from the US Strategic Bombing Survey (and this is unlikely to favour rival service):

The war against shipping was the most decisive single factor in the collapse of the Japanese economy and logistics support of Japanese military and naval power. Submarines accounted for the majority of vessel sinkings.

Your opponent has already very extended supply lines, which he will be hard-pressed to maintain. Sinking xAK and especially TK is often more rewarding in points than sinking DD (or even CL)..and double rewarding sinking the supplies/fuel/oil/resources.

[aztez]

Sardaukar: Wise words. I think Darwin is out of the question he has seized so many bases around Timor that it would be suicide to keep submarines here. The Brisbane area is much more safe.

The good old CAP! I wish I could provide but to be honest allied resources are very thin to put it mildly. I just recieved some Kittyhawks into Oz other than there are nothing worth of mentioning.

He is somewhat streched but seems to be able to cover his supply lanes quite nicely. This is very annoying. I will post an pic regarding potential routes that we might want to intercept. At the moment we are not doing good enough job.

As for S-boats, well agreed. These are the only performing at the moment. At least they have had few hits every now and than.

Monter_Trismegatos: Appreciate the kind words. It is good to know people are enjoying the ride since it takes time to maintain these type of AAR's.

At the moment there are no offensive plans. Maybe I should have but the losses have been horrific. The initial Pearl strike, 2 US CV's lost and the loss of ANZAC cruisers really hurt a lot! If I'am to go into offensive the risks are very high! Having said that I'am combining 2 Carrier TF's in the west coast and they are due to head out shortly. With these ships I have 3 US carrier task forces available for frontline duty.

I did make an basic map to show where the carriers, battleships are stationed at the moment. As you can see we are kind of thin all around. I wish I had those 2 US carriers available. Damn, that hurt. (Same can be said for the ANZAC forces lost near Noumea)

Swenslim: Thank you and welcome! You actually made good question and raise some valid points. I try to give my estimate with short and blunt answers.

I do think the supply scheme here is whacked for allied side. You start with level 0 forts and these eat supplies. Another thing is that it takes ages to build up forts even to level 4 which are pretty much useless againts constant japanese field artillery / airstrikes. Add those adjusted shock assault values and boom.. there goes the chinese divisions.

To counter these things I think the forts should be put around level 3 or 4 from the beginning. Some major cities should have level 6 orts from the start. This should slow down the enemy somewhat here. At the moment situation is not looking at all.

Another thing to slow down here should be the garrison requirements. If I understand correctly japanese do not need to garrison captured cities better than what allied have. I think major cities should require anywhere between 1000- 2000 av values for garrison. After all this is hostile ground they have captured.

The delibarate assault HR seems to slow down the progress somewhat but I think this was too little too late for me. Oh, I will fight to my best ability and I think I have done much better here than in any of my witp games. Eventhough the situation might seem so... unfortunately.

To summarize china. I think it is easy to capture the whole country. I grade Dave as an A+ japanese player. He is always modest but I think he is even better than Nemo and he really was tough nut to crack. (Too bad haven't seen him around AE forums)

Also keep in mind we have the rule that NO resource bombings here. If this was allowed than.. well BOOM, BOOM.. and end of story.

I also think the Kwantung army requirements are set too low. If I understand correctly Japanese have surplus of +4000 av points which can be released. I think the there should be maxium of 1000 av points surplus from the start.

I wish the game would allow me to activate russians now. I mean I would love nothing else than to start moving forward and bomb his bases to dust. Thus he would need to withdraw his extra air squadrons back into Manchuko. (Same goes for those damned armoured units etc.) This option should be implemented in the game.

Overall feeling, well there has been a lot of talk on how the player cannot sustain those constant bombing runs around map. To be honest this is not what I see. Actually do not see any change from my AE game. Dave runs constant bombings in Philippines, China, Sumatra and other areas. These assaults are relentless. Now with "nerferd" allied aircraft replacements I have been unable to stop these and believe me he would not run ragged in china if this would be the old witp. Now.. well it is completely diffrent story.

I wohn't bother to post these thoughts in the main forums. Simply these will squashed with whatever reasoning. So, I need to suck it up and keep going as do the other allied players. Lets just say that in RL japanese would not move forward in china the way they did in WW2.

Those suggestions and improvements above. Forts, garrison requirements, manchuko garrison levels etc ... well these would prevent these kind of games but I bet 99,5% certainty that there would be such and riot started by japanese players that it ain't going to happen. Eventhough these really should be in the game from the start.

I can say that the developers got chinese units correct. They do not amount to much in terms of offensive power (which is absolutely the way I see this) but missed the ball when they judged the japanese capabilities.

Yes, I have made errors in the game but not catastrophic.

Oh, one more thing. These "views" are absolute meant in the good way. These are not aimed against "JFB.s" in any harmful/disrespectful way. Nor are these comments saying that the developers did poor job with AE. No, absolutely not. Just saying that maybe there were major "errors" that were not thought through as well as they should have.

Maybe it just comes to down me being grade 7,5 allied player and Dave being 10- grade. Maybe.. but I stand behind my words. I was raised with the common theme. Keep your mouth shut if you cannot give explanations behind your views. That is the rule I live by in RL too.

I need to talk this through with Dave if he is able to conquer the china. I do not want to see to see whole pacific turn into fortress where every base has extra divisions from china/manchuko shipped there. No, that would be an major disaster. I do not mind him assaulting Soviet Union with some extra help released from chinese mainland.

No doubt we can have common sense ruling here if it becomes an issue. Well, lets fight first and only than start thinking these kind of thoughts.

Wirraway_Ace: No. The pacific submarine warfare isn't exactly my cup of tee so those were intresting facts you mentioned. The whole pacific theatre isn't exactly known to the details back here. Allthough it is covered with basic history education back here in Finland at least.

Thanks for the educational information! Appreciate those details!

British boats where quite useful in the old witp. That is if you opponent were not flying 300 bombers on the ASW than the whole submarine fleet kind of got annihilated. Thankfully none of my opponents have done. Hats of to them as being solid guys.

[aztez]

China (march 9th through 12th 1942)

The situation is growing worse near Sian. I have reinforcements on their way but so does Dave. The only diffrence being that my troops will not be there soon. I estimate that it will take 3-4 weeks before the main forces are in the area. His reinforcements seem to be few days off.

AVG did an nice job near Sian. These guys were flying the CAP at 32 000 feet and shot down quite a few Nate's and bombers. The total is propably between 20-30 aircraft. The bad thing is that I cannot keep the CAP up for long since I'am taking losses too. The AVG being only solid airgroup here means he will have an field day rather sooner than later.

As you can see from the pic Dave has extra 10 units moving towards Sian. He already has those 3000av points worth of troops there now so the total might raise into 4500-5000av which is about to enter the city. That is massive army indeed.

He is also making daily air and ground bombardments north of Loyang. These troops are moving forward slowly. I must keep them on combat orders since he has those 20 000 men in the same hex. Good play by him and nothing I can do here.

We achieved few minor victories. Ankang was liberated and we almost destroyed an enemy division making river crossing in this area.

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Ground combat at 82,43

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 3028 troops, 12 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 115

Defending force 26317 troops, 183 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 782

Japanese adjusted assault: 5

Allied adjusted defense: 679

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 135

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1009 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 70 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 51 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
13th RGC Temp. Division

Defending units:
30th Chinese/C Corps
59th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese/A Corps
28th New Chinese Division
39th New Chinese Division
39th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese/B Corps
33rd Group Army

The only odd thing is that only 1 enemy infantry squad was destroyed! I mean the odds were 1:135 so you really would expect more.

I think the picture can speak better than 1000 words so here you have it.

[aztez]

Burma (march 9th through 12th 1942)

This has been an silent front so far. I guess because he has been busy elsewhere and the bulk of the industry in southern areas is destroyed.

Maybe we can call this the "forgotten" front of Admiral's Edition.

He tried to seize up Lashio but the brigade moving there is now heading out. I realesed some chinese infantry and these guys just made in order to prevent this base from falling.

RAF Hurricane fighters made their debut on the war. This happened at Chittatong where some Betty's tried to hit our transports.

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Chittagong at 55,41

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 49 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13



Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIa Trop x 8


Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 7 destroyed

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Chittagong at 55,41

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 10



Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIa Trop x 8


Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed


Allied Ships
xAKL Chaksang, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

That is not bad. I checked the unit and it had kills "confirmed" as 20 aircraft. So, to lose around 20 Betty's and gain 1 small xAKL. That is good ratio in any days work.

[aztez]

Batavia (march 9th and 12th 1942)

We had an discussion regarding the CAP alltitudes in past day or so. This is the 1st time I had my P40E's set on 9000 feet CAP. This was 90% and 10% rested.

I will copy and paste the whole combat summary on these assaults.

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Morning Air attack on Batavia , at 49,98

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23



Allied aircraft
B-339D x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 23


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-339D: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
15 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 23000 feet *

CAP engaged:
1-VI.G.V with B-339D (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
3-VI.G.V with B-339D (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 1 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 19000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
3rd PS (P) with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 4 scrambling)
13 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes



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Morning Air attack on Batavia , at 49,98

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ia Oscar x 9



Allied aircraft
B-339D x 3


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-43-Ia Oscar sweeping at 23000 feet *

CAP engaged:
3-VI.G.V with B-339D (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Batavia at 49,98

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31
G3M2 Nell x 31



Allied aircraft
B-339D x 1
P-40E Warhawk x 11


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed, 17 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-339D: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA Houston
HDML 1062, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Kortenaer
HDML 1063
CL Java



Aircraft Attacking:
21 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
3-VI.G.V with B-339D (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
3rd PS (P) with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(11 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 11 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 6 minutes

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Morning Air attack on Batavia , at 49,98

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14



Allied aircraft
B-339D x 2
P-40E Warhawk x 10


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed



Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 23000 feet *
3 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 23000 feet *

CAP engaged:
1-VI.G.V with B-339D (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes
3-VI.G.V with B-339D (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
3rd PS (P) with P-40E Warhawk (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 2 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes

That is how the 9000 feet CAP went down. So, the results well did not perform as good as expected. This having done by comparing the AVG which had their alltitude set on 32 000 and shot down much more. Allthough these results are not easily compared since it is an diffrent aircraft types for both sides.

This leaves me with one dilemma since it seems I cannot provide decent enough CAP. The last turn proved how many Nells got through and I think the actual damage is even worse than what was reported.

What do with the ABDA surface fleet?

a) Should I withdraw it alltogether towards Oz or India?
b) Try to provide the best CAP I can and hope I can intercept some landings when they come?
c) Something else?

Another dilemma for the war. I really hate lose these cruisers for nothing! I do not mind if they can engage the enemy but to lose them to lba bombers is quite frankly dumb idea.

[seydlitz_slith]

Well, I see that he is sweeping at 21 and 23000 feet. Put your P-40Es at about 27000 feet and leave your Brewsters at 9000.

That should give you the bounce on him next turn with the P-40s doing most of the fighting against the zeroes and hopefully the Brewsters handling any low altitude leakers but avoiding most of the conmbat with the zero.

Since the P40 is faster than the zero it will attempt a slashing attack using the height advantage.

I would suggest pulling your cruisers back out of Nell range as the Nell units that you are facing most likely have very high naval attack skills and will indeed eat your lunch if you leave your ships exposed.

[aztez]

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

Well, I see that he is sweeping at 21 and 23000 feet. Put your P-40Es at about 27000 feet and leave your Brewsters at 9000.

That should give you the bounce on him next turn with the P-40s doing most of the fighting against the zeroes and hopefully the Brewsters handling any low altitude leakers but avoiding most of the conmbat with the zero.

Since the P40 is faster than the zero it will attempt a slashing attack using the height advantage.

I would suggest pulling your cruisers back out of Nell range as the Nell units that you are facing most likely have very high naval attack skills and will indeed eat your lunch if you leave your ships exposed.

Yeah. I did pretty much as suggested. I put up an 3 dimensional defense in the skies above Batavia. I think this kind of setup should provide some troubles to the enemy fighters and bombes coming.

All the P40E's were set on max. alltitude which is 29 000 feet.
Dutch fighters were set on 9 000 feet and 15 000 feet.

Maybe we get an bounce indeed. I moved 2/3rd's of fighters from Soerebaja into Batavia.

Formed few TF's so the enviroment would be target "rich" and now we only wait.

ABDA fleet was sent to sea with "remain on station" command. It might be wise move to get them out since ANZAC force was annihilated and these guys would kind of replace them.

The only things that I do hate withdraw units out of action! I guess we think think pretty much a like or at least that is the assumption I get by reading your AAR.

Well, those cruisers will remain some 240 miles outside of Java. Lets see what he is up to.

Those Nell's are actually far worse than Betty's. At least that is what I have experienced so far.

Next turn it will be march 15th. It is big day for ABDA commanders since we need to deciede whether to pay PP's and keep those fighters + divebombers. It is actually kind of 50/50% decision at the moment.

I think that the sweep againts Batavia indicates quite clearly that next stop will be Palempang.

[Streptokok]

ORIGINAL: seydlitz

Well, I see that he is sweeping at 21 and 23000 feet. Put your P-40Es at about 27000 feet and leave your Brewsters at 9000.

That should give you the bounce on him next turn with the P-40s doing most of the fighting against the zeroes and hopefully the Brewsters handling any low altitude leakers but avoiding most of the conmbat with the zero.

Since the P40 is faster than the zero it will attempt a slashing attack using the height advantage.

I would suggest pulling your cruisers back out of Nell range as the Nell units that you are facing most likely have very high naval attack skills and will indeed eat your lunch if you leave your ships exposed.

Slashing by P40 might still not work because if he has better pilots than aztez he might still get a die roll where he drags aztez into dogfight and eat P40s.
And Buffalos at 9k can and will loose badly even against Nates if Nates drag them into dogfight. I expirienced that myself, and since my Nates sucked above 9k I assume that game takes difference between planes manouv. into calculation, as I see it the bigger the difference (Nates 41 man. at 9k and buffalo 17) better the chance to be dragged into dogfight (pilot expirinece makes more difference afaik).
The only thing I havent managed to understand is the influence of durability, it seems it has quite some impact but dont know how much and in wich part of calculation.
Would be nice if someone explained how is climb rate taken into air to air combat die rolls too.

Also watch out for squads that were equiped with Nates and upgraded to Oscars, those with high exp and given good leaders can eat allies at any altitude. Dont think allies have any plane type to counter Oscars manouv.

[seydlitz_slith]

ORIGINAL: Streptokok


Slashing by P40 might still not work because if he has better pilots than aztez he might still get a die roll where he drags aztez into dogfight and eat P40s.
And Buffalos at 9k can and will loose badly even against Nates if Nates drag them into dogfight. I expirienced that myself, and since my Nates sucked above 9k I assume that game takes difference between planes manouv. into calculation, as I see it the bigger the difference (Nates 41 man. at 9k and buffalo 17) better the chance to be dragged into dogfight (pilot expirinece makes more difference afaik).
The only thing I havent managed to understand is the influence of durability, it seems it has quite some impact but dont know how much and in wich part of calculation.
Would be nice if someone explained how is climb rate taken into air to air combat die rolls too.

Also watch out for squads that were equiped with Nates and upgraded to Oscars, those with high exp and given good leaders can eat allies at any altitude. Dont think allies have any plane type to counter Oscars manouv.

I agree that the P40 slashing attack may not work, but we are trying to maximize the chances of success. The worst case is not any worst than what has been occurring unless he hits a real bad streak against the random number seed.

Your point is well taken about the Nate units. Aztez, there are 3 Nate units in the Malaya area that start with experience in the high sixties/low seventies. These are usually the first planes to be converted to Oscar Ic. Watch for them since Japan starts with one Oscar Ia, one Oscar Ib, and One Oscar Ic unit. If you start seeing additional Oscar units equipped with Ic then they are possibly converted high experience Nate Units. Your P40s can handle these because the Oscar doesn't have very much firepower, but your Buffaloes and other Dutch fighters will be in big trouble. The Oscar Ic is more maneuverable down low than a zero AND faster than your Brewsters and Dutch fighters.

[seydlitz_slith]

Aztez,
Here are some maps that may help you see where I would be patrolling if I was the allied player. Even with the high torpedo dud rate, I would keep subs in most of these patrol boxes (or some facsimilie thereof) if I wanted to cause stress to the Japanese commander.

First, the East China Sea and Yellow Sea areas. This is a pretty important area to patrol. Unlike Stock, most of the Chinese ports that are under Japanese control have significant stocks of resources (and some have significant fuel as well) that the Japanese player will need to get. This requires a steady stream of small convoys since most of the ports are small. This will provide for steady merchant traffic in the area. Other traffic will be troop convoys going to Takao, Pescadores, Samah, Cam Ranh Bay, Saigon, or Haiphong.

Normally, the Japanese player will want to route his shipments through this area as it gives him a sense of security. By putting seaplane units on the barrier islands (Okinawa, Amami Oshima, Ishigaki, etc.) and combining it with Kyushu, Formosa, and China based airborne ASW units, he will gain a good feeling that he has created a lake through which nothing can move without being spotted and attacked.

This is only partially true. To be blunt, just about all of the Japanese air units stink at ASW in the beginning with ratings from 11 to 39 (most in the 15-25 range). They get better only by long term ASW training or by being on ASW mission and actually spotting something. ASW usually only spots stuff out to about 6 hexes from the base in AE, so the East China Sea is like a doughnut with an air gap in the center. Also, several of his seaplane units only have 4 or 5 hex range anyways, and these are the ones most likely to be based on the islands in groups of 4-8 which means that there aren't really as many planes flying each turn covering 360 degree searches as you would at first think.

However, the Japanese player will think that he has a secure bastion in which to operate. He will often base some patrolling ASW forces (PB, SC) at Kagoshima and Sasebo. He will try to funnel his shipments to Fukuoka, Shimonoseki, or Sasebo. The best place is of course Shimonoseki since it is a level 9 port on Honshu. In stock, Sasebo was normally used for this function but it is not as valuable as the other two ports now.

You need to stay out of the shallow water hexes with islands because the Japanese player will usually mine them to make an additional obstacle that you have to penetrate. However, if you stay out in the deep water or even in the shallow water part of the Yellow Sea (zones 7 & 8) you can be successful.

As you can see from the map, Japanese convoys will transit this area. The track displaying is for a convoy going from Haiphong to Hiroshima.

[seydlitz_slith]

Not all of the convoys will go north of Formosa. Several will go south of Formosa between Luzon and Formosa or even down the east side of Luzon about 4-8 hexes off the coast. It all depends on where they are going to and where they are coming from. For this reason, you want to patrol zones 9, 10, 11 to capture this traffic. Ships coming from Tokyo or Osaka and heading to the Vietnam/Thailand area will often transit all three of these zones.

Again, you want to avoid the hex north of Batan Island because he expects you to be there or off Takao. Stay in the deep water where the air coverage is thin and encounters are not expected.

[seydlitz_slith]

Here are the prime areas to patrol south of Honshu. Zones 13, 14,15, & 16 are usually heavily patrolled by the Japanese and you will also find heavier air ASW coverage here. However, zones 17-20 are usually undefended with very little if any air coverage. The traffic will still be transiting these areas and you can get kills by keeping patrolling subs here. 18-20 may even bag you a few warships or loaded transports heading south from the Tokyo area towards Truk or Palau.

[seydlitz_slith]

Feel free to split zones 18-20 into smaller zones with subs in each. The point is to be able to intercept as the ships transit. Now merchants move 3-4 hexes per movement phase or 6 to 8 in a turn.

The next thing to know is this.... At the start of the game, some Japanese DDs have 0 ASW, a few have 4 ASW, and most only have 2 ASW. During the first 6 months, most of these ships will receive upgrades that give them a total of 4 ASW.
The Patrol boats will usually be 2 ASW with some only having 1 and a few 3 or 4. The SC units will have 4 ASW for the most part and are the most dangerous units, but they are very slow at a speed of 10 kts and have very low endurance.

Since ASW units can only have 4 ships in a task force, you can safely engage anything that doesn't have multiple SCs pretty easily. Your agressive captains can easily take out single or two ship PB/SC units in night surface actions since your subs are faster than these ships and they usually don't have very good guns.

Japan does not have enough escorts to give every convoy an escort. Usually one or two PB or SC is all that you will see for a merchant convoy. A hyper-agressive sub captain will still surface attack at night if the weak escort is only PB or SC in some cases. For this reason I often include an old DD in the convoy escort if one is available.

Even if you get pinned down and attacked, you will often be able to escape as long as you are in deep water.

One of the critical things to keep in mind is to watch your subs. Check them each turn. If it says "unit spotted" then manually interrupt the patrol and move the sub at least one hex in any direction. If you stay there, you will get spotted again and before two long the empire's ASW forces will show up to make you pay for your insolence. Failure to change locations after being spotted is most often the reason that you lose subs. Don't let apathy set in and cost you. You don't need to go far, just 1 hex to break the spot. The same applies after you attack a ship. Move at least one hex next turn because the shipping will route around the known sub presence in many cases, just like in real life.

[seydlitz_slith]

Now let's talk about your subs that you should be using to patrol these areas. Most of your U.S. subs are good for these patrols except for the S-boats, Barracuda, Bass, Bonita,Dolphin, Cachalot, and Cuttlefish. Those are just too old and too small for the extended patrols.

If you are playing with fixed reinforcements on, then you will have received the following submarines by March 15.

Gato Class: Tambor Class:
------------- ---------------
Gato Grampus
Finback Grayback
Silversides Grenadier
Greenling
Haddock
Trigger
Grouper

These are all excellent boats for long range patrols. Silversides comes with a very good Captain BTW.

In April you get some important units....The first Gatos start arriving that have both air search and surface search radar. These will be your first subs with radar and are huge for avoiding air contacts and intercepting shipping.
These subs will be:

Drum (1 Apr)
Growler (15 Apr)
Halibut (15 Apr)
Flying Fish (28 Apr)

Use them appropriately.

Other subs worth noting are the Dutch O-18,19, & 20. They have working torpedoes and the endurance to sail to these patrol zones.

Finally, there are three older American subs that you should be using in patrol areas where you think that you may run into unescorted merchants (like zones 18-20). They are Nautilus, Narwhal, and Argonaut. All are slow (13 kts) but have two 6 inch guns that will do a number on patrol boasts and merchants. Just make sure that you assign them a Captain with high Naval Skill to put them into the right position and a high agressive rating so that they will attack on the surface and use their guns.

[seydlitz_slith]

Argonaut

[seydlitz_slith]

And potential Captain selection to use if needed. Brockman is potentially ok for Nautilus because his Naval is outstanding. He is a bit on the cautious side so that should be your call.

[seydlitz_slith]

Good luck and good hunting.

In case you haven't figured it out, I love naval history. In particular the U.S. submarine campaign against Japan. I literally have a bookcase full of books on this subject alone.

If you ever get curious, I can tell you what each American sub sank, when, where, and if the sub survived the war or was lost. Many of the Captains are very familiar also.

I apologize for the multiple posts with maps on your AAR. I am just trying to be helpful to you by illustrating how to properly use your assets. I couldn't very well post these maps in my AAR since I am playing Japan in that game.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: aztez

To summarize china. I think it is easy to capture the whole country. I grade Dave as an A+ japanese player. He is always modest but I think he is even better than Nemo and he really was tough nut to crack. (Too bad haven't seen him around AE forums)

Aztec, sad to say but your China strategy seems to be too much based on WITP.

As far as I can tell (from this AAR) you should asap try to attack (block) the Japanese rearward supply lanes with small Chinese forces. Your opponent will eventually defeat these forces, but they will slow him down. Building big Chinese stacks that contain several combat ineffective formations (there are some Chinese Corps that are very weak) does only lead to higher losses in the AE. Use these corps as guerilla/harrassment forces.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: aztez

To summarize china. I think it is easy to capture the whole country. I grade Dave as an A+ japanese player. He is always modest but I think he is even better than Nemo and he really was tough nut to crack. (Too bad haven't seen him around AE forums)

Aztec, sad to say but your China strategy seems to be too much based on WITP.

As far as I can tell (from this AAR) you should asap try to attack (block) the Japanese rearward supply lanes with small Chinese forces. Your opponent will eventually defeat these forces, but they will slow him down. Building big Chinese stacks that contain several combat ineffective formations (there are some Chinese Corps that are very weak) does only lead to higher losses in the AE. Use these corps as guerilla/harrassment forces.

In addition, part of his Problem is (I believe) his opponent has brought in some elements from the Kwantung Army....They will always serve to upset the apple cart.[;)]