MWiF Map Review - America

[Froonp]

It looks like I found someone who knows river names.
what would be the name of the unamed one between Charleston and Wilmington here ?

[Froonp]

Edit : Deleted, see below.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

And if I may ask another, what is the name of the Tributary of the Hudson River here ?

Sorry, forget this one, it looks like the Mohawk.

[brian brian]

the one between Charleston and Wilmington should be the Cape Fear.

the Neuse is rather unfortunately drawn, considering it becomes tidal influenced a bit above the city of New Bern. the port at it's mouth could be better labeled Morehead City, still a port of embarkation for the heavier elements of the USMC today, whereas only sail boats dock in New Bern. moving the river to the other side of the hex would solve that nicely.


I'll just leave this idea in this currently active thread:

this gets confusing. the map is 'done' but crossing arrows can be tweaked. I've been fooling around with a print-out of the Caspian area, that could still use work. an entire hex-row or two could be eliminated between Grozny and Baku, easily. Baku and Tiflis are so far apart, either side can be said to suffer from the distortion depending on who you are playing at the time. Reinforcements from Baku take forever to reach the Tiflis front; likewise after the Axis take Tiflis they have a long march to Baku still in front of them. it appears we have plenty of time till release and this could be a good area to work on still. I know you put a lot of time in to it already. one way to approach it might be to do some basic measurements of distances; I know there are several border/geographical features you wished to illustrate, however if including them introduces so much distortion, perhaps some of them should be edited out. I wouldn't worry about the effects on Turkmenistan, but the west side of the Caspian and the entire north/south alignment of it is just wrong. subtracting a row from the Kalmyk Steppes above it wouldn't hurt anything....except of course for the entire structure of the map data files. but I get a little confused as to why small things can still be worked on but bigger things can't.?

[Taxman66]

A quick (and probably incomplete) google-foo attempt regarding ferries and other susch crossings of the Chesapeake:

http://www.chesapeakelifemag.com/index. ... idge_ja02/

and

http://www.esva.net/~rwest/ferries.html

Leaving the Baltimore crossing is probably legit in that there appears to have been enough local shipping for just such (non-military) purposes that it could have been used.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
Leaving the Baltimore crossing is probably legit in that there appears to have been enough local shipping for just such (non-military) purposes that it could have been used.

OK, thanks.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

the one between Charleston and Wilmington should be the Cape Fear.

Looking at maps, I think I agree.

the Neuse is rather unfortunately drawn, considering it becomes tidal influenced a bit above the city of New Bern. the port at it's mouth could be better labeled Morehead City, still a port of embarkation for the heavier elements of the USMC today, whereas only sail boats dock in New Bern. moving the river to the other side of the hex would solve that nicely.

I agree about the Neuse.... but... ha-hem...

[sajbalk]

If you are making easy changes, you should delete the rail connection from Norflok to the Delmarva peninsula to the NE.
The crossing arrow is there in 1940, but no bridge until post war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake ... dge-Tunnel

[mlees]

If the Japanese landed in San Fransisco, wouldn't they just get the middle finger from those ferry pilots?

Everyone gets to use those ferries, right?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

If you are making easy changes, you should delete the rail connection from Norflok to the Delmarva peninsula to the NE.
The crossing arrow is there in 1940, but no bridge until post war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake ... dge-Tunnel

Right. I do that. That rail is not drawn neither on the AiF America Maps, so we should not have had it on the MWiF maps either.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: mlees

If the Japanese landed in San Fransisco, wouldn't they just get the middle finger from those ferry pilots?

Everyone gets to use those ferries, right?

What does this mean ?

[sajbalk]

Thanks for taking off the rail.

As to the ferries, I think he means that the invader would need to bring his own boat and could not use the enemy's boats.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Thanks for taking off the rail.

As to the ferries, I think he means that the invader would need to bring his own boat and could not use the enemy's boats.

Well, wouldn't this be true for any ferry service in any country ?
There is no rule in the game for Strait hexside being disabled and reconstructed when conquered, Strait hexsides become immediately useful for the conqueror.
If the Germans are able to use the Kerch Strait ferry services from the Russians, I believe that the Japanese would be able to use the San Francisco Bay Ferry services from the Americans.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

Thanks for taking off the rail.

As to the ferries, I think he means that the invader would need to bring his own boat and could not use the enemy's boats.

Well, wouldn't this be true for any ferry service in any country ?
There is no rule in the game for Strait hexside being disabled and reconstructed when conquered, Strait hexsides become immediately useful for the conqueror.
If the Germans are able to use the Kerch Strait ferry services from the Russians, I believe that the Japanese would be able to use the San Francisco Bay Ferry services from the Americans.

About the ferry boat captains, ... I have always believed that the guy with the gun is in charge. Telling someone who has superior firepower that you won't cooperate tends to shorten your lifespan dramatically.

I am sure the Japanese army had people who could run ferries, so the question is whether all the shipping would be destroyed to the point that it couldn't be restored to a semblance of an operational condition. And as Patrice said, this would apply to every straits hex on the map.

[Orm]

For a straits hexside to exist it doesn't have to have been an actual ferry there. It can also be where a military force could cross water with coastal shiping or small boats. Another consideration if there should be a straits hexside or not is if a blue water navy could reasonable hinder a crossing or not. This is as I see it anyway.

Remember that this is a strategic game and such resources as small boats are simplified away.

[Mike Dubost]

ORIGINAL: Orm

For a straits hexside to exist it doesn't have to have been an actual ferry there. It can also be where a military force could cross water with coastal shiping or small boats. Another consideration if there should be a straits hexside or not is if a blue water navy could reasonable hinder a crossing or not. This is as I see it anyway.

Remember that this is a strategic game and such resources as small boats are simplified away.

If the ability of a blue water navy to hinder the crossing is a controlling consideration, then there should not be a crossing between Oakland and Marin County (the hex west of San Francisco Bay). Nearly a decade ago, I watched one of the decommissioned Iowa Class BBs sail up to join the "mothball fleet" in Benicia, and she went right through that hex. I don't think that part of the bay is dredged or if it is, it was dredged then, since Mare Island Naval Shipyard was north of it in Vallejo. I would leave the other crossings for the bridges, but not add one here.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

ORIGINAL: Orm

For a straits hexside to exist it doesn't have to have been an actual ferry there. It can also be where a military force could cross water with coastal shiping or small boats. Another consideration if there should be a straits hexside or not is if a blue water navy could reasonable hinder a crossing or not. This is as I see it anyway.

Remember that this is a strategic game and such resources as small boats are simplified away.

If the ability of a blue water navy to hinder the crossing is a controlling consideration, then there should not be a crossing between Oakland and Marin County (the hex west of San Francisco Bay). Nearly a decade ago, I watched one of the decommissioned Iowa Class BBs sail up to join the "mothball fleet" in Benicia, and she went right through that hex. I don't think that part of the bay is dredged or if it is, it was dredged then, since Mare Island Naval Shipyard was north of it in Vallejo. I would leave the other crossings for the bridges, but not add one here.

There is a difference to be able to sail somewhere in coastal water and the ability to operate in hostile coastal water. A BB in coastal water would be vulnerable to mines and torpedo boats and so on.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

ORIGINAL: Orm

For a straits hexside to exist it doesn't have to have been an actual ferry there. It can also be where a military force could cross water with coastal shiping or small boats. Another consideration if there should be a straits hexside or not is if a blue water navy could reasonable hinder a crossing or not. This is as I see it anyway.

Remember that this is a strategic game and such resources as small boats are simplified away.

If the ability of a blue water navy to hinder the crossing is a controlling consideration, then there should not be a crossing between Oakland and Marin County (the hex west of San Francisco Bay). Nearly a decade ago, I watched one of the decommissioned Iowa Class BBs sail up to join the "mothball fleet" in Benicia, and she went right through that hex. I don't think that part of the bay is dredged or if it is, it was dredged then, since Mare Island Naval Shipyard was north of it in Vallejo. I would leave the other crossings for the bridges, but not add one here.

There is a difference to be able to sail somewhere in coastal water and the ability to operate in hostile coastal water. A BB in coastal water would be vulnerable to mines and torpedo boats and so on.

There is also the knowledge of the sand bars, reefs, and other natural navigational hazards which might not be known to an invader.

[Mike Dubost]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost

ORIGINAL: Orm

For a straits hexside to exist it doesn't have to have been an actual ferry there. It can also be where a military force could cross water with coastal shiping or small boats. Another consideration if there should be a straits hexside or not is if a blue water navy could reasonable hinder a crossing or not. This is as I see it anyway.

Remember that this is a strategic game and such resources as small boats are simplified away.

If the ability of a blue water navy to hinder the crossing is a controlling consideration, then there should not be a crossing between Oakland and Marin County (the hex west of San Francisco Bay). Nearly a decade ago, I watched one of the decommissioned Iowa Class BBs sail up to join the "mothball fleet" in Benicia, and she went right through that hex. I don't think that part of the bay is dredged or if it is, it was dredged then, since Mare Island Naval Shipyard was north of it in Vallejo. I would leave the other crossings for the bridges, but not add one here.

There is a difference to be able to sail somewhere in coastal water and the ability to operate in hostile coastal water. A BB in coastal water would be vulnerable to mines and torpedo boats and so on.

Admitedly that is true up to a point. However, that part of the Bay is pretty wide and deep for inland waters. I think it is not much more constricted than some of the waters around the Solomons, for example.

Given the batteries on the Marin Headlands, it would have been tough for hostile ships to get into the Bay at all. In the end, I suggest that there is enough room for doubt to default to leaving the map as is.

[mlees]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

About the ferry boat captains, ... I have always believed that the guy with the gun is in charge. Telling someone who has superior firepower that you won't cooperate tends to shorten your lifespan dramatically.

I am sure the Japanese army had people who could run ferries, so the question is whether all the shipping would be destroyed to the point that it couldn't be restored to a semblance of an operational condition. And as Patrice said, this would apply to every straits hex on the map.

Ok, thanks. I apologize if it seems I was derailing the thread.

I was just thinking "But they can't count on those ferries being there!", in that a lot of the small craft would become victims of a "scorched earth" policy if the various owners were forced to flee the approach of invaders.

You are correct to point out that this would have to apply pretty much anywhere there is a strait crossing, and unduly complicate matters.