Holy cow John Tiller has gone digital: Kharkov 43

[junk2drive]

Latest posting on JTS website

Before this endeavor started last Friday, we had no idea what to expect. I had established a sales goal for the end of the month that I felt would represent undisputable success. I am delighted to report that because of your enthusiastic response, our first month sales goal was achieved Tuesday.

Our second game, a Squad Battles game, is finished and ready for release in the near future. And we have a very aggressive publishing schedule established for the first half of 2011 to populate the store with a variety of games from many different areas.

Thank you for ensuring that my team and I will be able to continue our efforts well into the future.

John Tiller
08 Dec 2010

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Hmm

Well that says two things to me. Even if others read it differently.

1. Our sales success refutes all your complaints as having no importance to me.

2. I plan to continue doing it my way regardless of a few complaints on the internet.

You might see it differently, but it sounded smug too me.

I just finished downloading a 80 dollar game John, and it wasn't yours.
Enjoy your success.

[diablo1]

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Hmm

Well that says two things to me. Even if others read it differently.

1. Our sales success refutes all your complaints as having no importance to me.

2. I plan to continue doing it my way regardless of a few complaints on the internet.

You might see it differently, but it sounded smug too me.

I just finished downloading a 80 dollar game John, and it wasn't yours.
Enjoy your success.

LMAO man everybody is jabbing at something today.

But, you do know how easy it is to say something that isn't true on the Internet now don't you Les? He could say his sales figures shot up to the moon and back but doesn't mean it's so. I want to see figures, data bases stuff you know he won't release or Matrixgames either for that matter. Although I though income tax reports were/are public?

[Yogi the Great]

While I won't be buying from him at this time, I certainly see no reason not to wish him well and great success. Any succesful wargame company is something I consider helpful to all of us. The more the better.

Yes, he could be making things up, but he is probably being sincere.

Now, whether the goal he met was to sell 1,000 games or 10 games isn't mentioned.

While many of us, including myself, are unhappy with the situation and may have complained about it on the Internet, we still represent a small percentage of the total number of people who buy. Who knows, maybe for every one of us who says they won't buy, there are 10 who are quietly doing so.

So, Good Luck Mr. Tiller, but please consider providing hard copies and changing your DRM poicy so that a few more of us will buy your games as well.

[LarryP]

Yogi; Good post! [&o]

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Internet details are a tricky thing indeed.

I bought Civ V even with all the 'thrill' that is Steam connected with it.

Now if you look at the Firaxis forums, it 'seems' like the games is a disgusting waste of money based on the volume of hate on the forums there.

But one person mentioned, if you subtract the entire sum of registered users there, from the reported 3 million sales (was 3 million when the comment was made), that leaves you with a smashing success if the games only detractors are the ones complaining on the forum.

As was mentioned, we have no idea what John considers a 'success' number.
But this isn't Firaxis we are talking about, and John sure hasn't made several millions sales hehe.

I'm used to ASL and most board games measuring interest level needed for a first print run to be in the ranger of 1000 units often even less.
I suppose if John is drinking champagne after generating 1000 sales, well that's his business. I mean, that would be 1000 x 40 bucks, or 40 thousand bucks. Yeah I suppose I'd be happy if I made 40 thousand bucks last week too I guess.
And it's not like it's his day job. So that's 40 thousand in spending money perhaps.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Hmm

Well that says two things to me. Even if others read it differently.

1. Our sales success refutes all your complaints as having no importance to me.

2. I plan to continue doing it my way regardless of a few complaints on the internet.

You might see it differently, but it sounded smug too me.

I just finished downloading a 80 dollar game John, and it wasn't yours.
Enjoy your success.

That's how I took it as well. Especially when he said "I am delighted to report that because of your enthusiastic response..."

I sense sarcasm in there, as the response from the community as a whole was I would say less than enthusiastic. His choice of words I think clearly reflects on how he thinks of us who did not like his DRM.

[diablo1]

I mean, that would be 1000 x 40 bucks, or 40 thousand bucks.

And they wonder why we complain about $80 games.

[junk2drive]

And a programer makes how much a year?

I look back at the companies that are gone. A boss, a couple of programmers, a couple of years work, a couple of hundred thousand invested, $40000 sales divided up with a publisher...

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

And a programer makes how much a year?

I look back at the companies that are gone. A boss, a couple of programmers, a couple of years work, a couple of hundred thousand invested, $40000 sales divided up with a publisher...

Well, now he has no publisher sucking up money from the sales of future releases, plus I don't think he has "a couple hundred thousand invested". Let's be real here...

[junk2drive]

First off, I stated I was talking about game companies that are no longer around.

Second, it was a response to the blanket statement that $80 games pay one guy (not JT) too much money.

There is usually a front guy that puts up the money, a programmer, an artist. Or they buy someone's art and any other bits they might need.

If you have just 3 guys at $30k a piece for a year that is $90 without a building and other expenses like traveling to game conventions.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

First off, I stated I was talking about game companies that are no longer around.

Second, it was a response to the blanket statement that $80 games pay one guy (not JT) too much money.

There is usually a front guy that puts up the money, a programmer, an artist. Or they buy someone's art and any other bits they might need.

If you have just 3 guys at $30k a piece for a year that is $90 without a building and other expenses like traveling to game conventions.

Sorry, in your comparison you made it seem as if JT as in the same situation. I'm also sorry that I assumed it was a response to me, but it wasn't all that clear and you never put quotes.

[junk2drive]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

First off, I stated I was talking about game companies that are no longer around.

Second, it was a response to the blanket statement that $80 games pay one guy (not JT) too much money.

There is usually a front guy that puts up the money, a programmer, an artist. Or they buy someone's art and any other bits they might need.

If you have just 3 guys at $30k a piece for a year that is $90 without a building and other expenses like traveling to game conventions.

Sorry, in your comparison you made it seem as if JT as in the same situation. I'm also sorry that I assumed it was a response to me, but it wasn't all that clear and you never put quotes.

LOL it makes me nuts when people quote the post right above theirs. Especially the really long posts with the same long post right below.

Could be that a programmer like JT makes $100k+ a year and $40k is not a big paycheck to him. I don't know.

[junk2drive]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Hmm

Well that says two things to me. Even if others read it differently.

1. Our sales success refutes all your complaints as having no importance to me.

2. I plan to continue doing it my way regardless of a few complaints on the internet.

You might see it differently, but it sounded smug too me.

I just finished downloading a 80 dollar game John, and it wasn't yours.
Enjoy your success.

That's how I took it as well. Especially when he said "I am delighted to report that because of your enthusiastic response..."

I sense sarcasm in there, as the response from the community as a whole was I would say less than enthusiastic. His choice of words I think clearly reflects on how he thinks of us who did not like his DRM.

I have known people that would lie about their success. I don't know JT.

I do know that everyone reads statements differently. The news media is good at reading it for you and telling you what it means.
There are probably some that read JT's statement as sarcasm or arrogance, and others that will take it a humble thank you.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Just so everyone knows, I pulled 1000 units out of thin air. They call it the P500 system for a reason.

Myself, if I had a real job, and I heard his was a government job, which is likely a fine enough job, but like I said, if I had a real job, a decent income type income and the wargames was a side thing, well 'making a lot of money' would be fun, but I'd be doing it for the fun of making the game more than the fun of making money (not that I would object to making money).

Not sure how hard it is for John to make a new release. He's got a working engine to my knowledge, and he sure isn't spending a lot of effort on new audio sounds. The graphics likely no longer present him with the same challenge as in the beginning. I'm sure it's mostly research these days. Thing is, his games look templated. But hey, I don't begrudge him making money.

But it's possible to say, his games could easily all fit inside of one, such as TOAW III.
You guys would never tolerate paying 80 bucks that's for sure

[junk2drive]

I would find it hard to buy 20 versions of the same thing at $40 a pop. Some people have though.

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I would find it hard to buy 20 versions of the same thing at $40 a pop. Some people have though.

I've bought several SB games. I admit I'm an addict. But I only get the titles with theaters that interset me.
Total cost is more than your overpriced WITP, BFTB, WITE.

[V22 Osprey]

I don't see how everyone thinks he's just copying with every release. Obviously every game is going to be similar in a certain series. Yes all his games look similar across different series, but thats because his interface WORKS. You guys act as if Squad Battles, Panzer Campaigns, Naval Campaigns, and Napoleon's Battles all play the same. First World War Campaigns plays nothing like Panzer Campaigns, however the two games use a similar interface that makes it easy to jump into. Try playing FWWC with Panzer Campaigns tactics and play style, you will get your ass handed to you. I do agree with sarge in that all the games of a certain series could be packaged into a single game.

[junk2drive]

I will admit that I and some people are spoiled by all in one games like Steel Panthers and all front games like CMBB. SB I can understand a separate game for EF WF PF Korea Vietnam SAW. The rest should be reduced price expansions.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I will admit that I and some people are spoiled by all in one games like Steel Panthers and all front games like CMBB. SB I can understand a separate game for EF WF PF Korea Vietnam SAW. The rest should be reduced price expansions.

Agreed. Plus, not only do games like JTCS, WinSPWW2, SPWAW, and WinSPMBT cover everything in one game, they also have fantastic battle generators and editors. I like Jphn Tiller's games more for their historical scenarios and time periods that are usually not covered.(I love Musket and Pike The Renaissance) I honestly don't think ANY game even touches the amount of stuff WinSPMBT(CD Version especially) has in one game, not even WinSPWW2.