Help with Allied Logistics

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Humm, I think you sort of convinced me to use these channels [:)]

Anyway, there's a flaw in your theory. The WC -> Australia (or Ceylon -> Perth) routes are risky? Are you sure? Keep in mind the convoys sail south of Bora Bora... If, despite this, the Japanese manage to raid them, then I AFFIRM they can raid any convoy west and northwest of Perth too = your "safe" route. The convoys will be caught once they leave their heaven [;)]

As I have said, I think I am going to follow your advice though.

An addendum after I looked at the manual, in my annual "take a Saturday night bath and re-read the rules" ritual (even though it's Wednesday here.) There is some fuel consumption, and the damage can accrue in the off-map movement cases where the ship must move in the first phase to the "transit box." (See manual for details.) EC is one of these cases. It's a minor fuel consumption, but a little. True off-map-to-off-map base moves don't use fuel.

I have been hit by the AI on a WC to Sydney route by subs, CVs, LBA, and surface raiders all four. I didn't route south of Bora Bora. More on the latitude of Suva, with doglegs around Tarawa once needed, as well as Baker/Canton when the AI had one or both. Going very far south is of course possible, but adds time if Sydney is the destination. If one is using NZ as a dump a southern route makes sense. I don't like to use NZ personally. To get the fuel where it's needed is another unload/load cycle, and the transit to Oz has to happen regardless. I'd rather do it with good escorts I brought on the trans-Pacific. I did some WC to Oz routing in my first game, but in the second I used CT exclusively and did fine.

I have seen, five times in two games and there may have been more I did not see, CV raids into the IO, usually from Java as a best guess. Different make-ups. One very late war one had only Akagi and one lone DD, as that was about all that was left, but it got to the height of Port Blair, to the west about half way to the map edge. The others swung more towards Diego and did not go as far north. Two that I recall caught tanker convoys, and were the reason I stopped doing a N-S route to Oz from the Mideast. I recall in my first game losing six tankers in one attack by CV raiders in the IO. Not fun. These raids took place after 1942 in total I believe. In 1942 the CVs raided the E-W routes at least to east of Pago Pago. I caught that one retiring and sank, I think, Shoho near Noumea as it retired to refuel.

I've had good luck on a straight shot from the CT wormhole to Perth. Haven't been attacked. Not to say there aren't scripts to raid there, but I haven't drawn any.
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Treetop64
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Treetop64 »

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

I pay a lot of attention to logistics. The part of the game I like the most [:)]


I know what you mean. It's my favorite part of the game, too. The proper moving around of stuff and people is about 90% of the game. I am quite thankful that the devs spent as much time developing that aspect of the game as much as they did.

[&o]
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dr.hal
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by dr.hal »

The whole concept of supply and logistics is something that almost ALL wargames ignore and yes, it is very much a fun part (but dull? part) of the game. Remember what was said about an army (navy?); it marches on its stomach (did I get that right?). For the original poster, Powloon, a couple of points I would adhere to.

1) Do not mix ships with differing speeds greater than one knot if possible. It is a needless delay. I usually use the 12 knot cargo carriers for that very purpose (cargo) and use their range to determine which aspect of the logistic chain they are part of, those with 6K range on shorter hauls, those with 12K or more on trans Pacific and to the East coast. I have never bothered with the UK, as I can't move the EC supplies fast enough to need the UK.

2) As suggested, use mass convoys (mine regularly have 30-50 ships or more screened by proportionally fewer escorts (but usually one CL or larger to fend off any surface raider).

3) Be prepared to supply Capetown with fuel.

4) Don't neglect the transportation of OIL, especially to Ozzzz!!!!!

5) Keep your fast AKs to move in tandem with your fast APs in the transport of troops so that you don't slow down your APs thus increasing their exposure to sub or surface attack! Do not use them normally for pure cargo runs.

6) Rangoon is vital, not only to China (interior Burma Road) but to how far the Japanese go into Burma.. they can't advance far if this very large thorn is in their side. Here air power is key as was suggest.

Hal
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USSAmerica
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by USSAmerica »

I don't have the chart in front of me at work, but I'm pretty sure the off map distance between CT and the UK is shorter than from CT to the East Coast of the US.  Not a fuel impact, but transit time. 

Count me as another who enjoys the logistics in AE.  The War in the Pacific was mostly dictated by logistics and the game accurately emphasizes this.  [8D]
Mike

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dr.hal
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by dr.hal »

But you don't get much from the UK as I recall, where there are troops and aircraft as well as LOTS of supplies from the EC.... And most stuff from the UK was at that time made in the USA to begin with!!!!!!
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by USSAmerica »

Dr. Hal, LCU'S and air groups can transfer from EC to CT or between any other connected off map bases without using ships.  Only use the ships to move supply/fuel between off map bases, and then to move troops/planes/supply/fuel onto the map from an off map base.  The UK is a very good supply source and an available shipyard that happens to be a little closer to CT than the EC.
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dr.hal
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by dr.hal »

WHAT??? IS that really true USS America (Mike)? How did I miss that??? I've been loading troops and AC all this time for nothing??? Boy do I feel stupid.....Hal
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by USSAmerica »

Yep, troops or air groups that are off map can "transfer" to other connected off map bases.  They then appear on the "reinforcement" queue as arriving at that base in x days.
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Banzan »

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

WHAT??? IS that really true USS America (Mike)? How did I miss that??? I've been loading troops and AC all this time for nothing??? Boy do I feel stupid.....Hal

I'll join the club... [X(]
DavidTheGreat
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by DavidTheGreat »

Can you move LCU etc. between EC and Aden without using transports ?
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Mike Solli »

Keep talking guys. I'm taking lots of notes. [:D] My opponent has gotten off easy in our previous games. Not any more (says the JFB). [;)]
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Treetop64
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Treetop64 »

Well, we just know who not to play against, so HA!

Um, yeah....

...as long as you post that you're taking notes, then we know who not to play against.

...so, HA!

Mm-kay.  AI only for me.  [:D]
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dr.hal
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by dr.hal »

Well I'll be DARNED... notice the anti inflammatory term..... I don't think that's fair... but if that's the rules, I'm sure glad I found out about it in March '42 and not March '45!!! Do others agree with this concept???? Hal
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by USSAmerica »

ORIGINAL: David The Great

Can you move LCU etc. betweet EC and Aden without using transports ?

Nope, they are not directly connected...... maybe possible after the Med link opens up sometime in '43. I can't remember the exact mechanics of how to order them to transfer as I'm at work, but I'm sure someone can provide the details.
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by USSAmerica »

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Keep talking guys. I'm taking lots of notes. [:D] My opponent has gotten off easy in our previous games. Not any more (says the JFB). [;)]

We AFB's never take any notes in all the Japanese economy threads, either. [;)]
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by USSAmerica »

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Well I'll be DARNED... notice the anti inflammatory term..... I don't think that's fair... but if that's the rules, I'm sure glad I found out about it in March '42 and not March '45!!! Do others agree with this concept???? Hal


I absolutely agree, Hal. The ships in game are representative of those available in the Pacific Theater. There are thousands more ships that were used in the Atlantic, Med, etc.
Mike

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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: rjopel

Don't forget to setup a series of CS convoys from the UK to Cape Town to use the supplies that show up there. I've missed that one for months and am just now getting those running in my other games.

Problem with that is you will eventually drain UK of supplies if you run two many. You can also use Eastern US but with the same effect.

Actually it is possible to drain any of the off map bases so you do need to watch it. Having said that it's better on the map than off it.
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by HansBolter »

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: rjopel

Don't forget to setup a series of CS convoys from the UK to Cape Town to use the supplies that show up there. I've missed that one for months and am just now getting those running in my other games.

Problem with that is you will eventually drain UK of supplies if you run two many. You can also use Eastern US but with the same effect.


I have never had to ship supplies from UK to Capetown to have an adequate store at CT to distribute on map.

In fact, it's the fuel limitations at CT that cause pains. I have to routinely shut down supply distribution from CT while awaiting new Convoy shipments of fuel to be able to distribute the supply.

If you ship additional supply to CT, wouldn't you also have to ship additional fuel there to be able to distribute the supply?
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Mike Solli
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Mike Solli »

ORIGINAL: USS America

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Keep talking guys. I'm taking lots of notes. [:D] My opponent has gotten off easy in our previous games. Not any more (says the JFB). [;)]

We AFB's never take any notes in all the Japanese economy threads, either. [;)]

Of course not, Mike. [:D]
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RE: Help with Allied Logistics

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

2) As suggested, use mass convoys (mine regularly have 30-50 ships or more screened by proportionally fewer escorts (but usually one CL or larger to fend off any surface raider).

Some AI scripts use dual CAs in the raider TF, with some escorts. A CL would be lunch meat. I lost the QE1 to a CA in my first game. She was runnning solo at high speed returning from dropping off a USA division in Oz. No matter how fast she is, she can't outrun an 8in shell.

Andy made surface raider scripts nasty. Newbies, be warned.

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