3R-Axis - Avalon Hill 'Third Reich' for TOAW - by sPzAbt653

[Crossroads]

I guess TR had a good reason to call the counters "units". Afterall, 'Army Corps' meant different things to different countries, and even among a single country the strength varied during the war. 

[USXpat]

Thank you all for the comments - still a work in progress.  The Third Reich 1942-1945 PO averages about 30 min per turn during the first 30-odd turns.  It's a full time job just to play it!  [:D]  

Avalon Hill's "Rise and Decline of the Third Reich" was my first real wargame.  Hard to represent the BRP's and ability to buy your units in TOAW - consumes too many events. 

Governato's rework East Front 1941 - 1945 - mostly at the Corps/Army level is a good fast play scenario.  Europe Aflame on the same scale is Corps level, too - and borders upon being a monster.  It is a monster - but it starts out "fast/small" and gets bigger. 

Another game that comes pretty close to approximating AH's 3rd Reich is Time of Fury - Division/Corps level - but provides the strategic component of planning unit purchases (infantry/motor/armor/airborne/fighters/tac bombers/stratbombers/ships/subs).  Strategic Command was Korps/Army level, allowed purchases/tech - and used what looked like the Panzer General interface.

[sPzAbt653]

Did you create the map for this purpose?

Yes.

... separate UK with a clear sea bed ...

I'm not sure how to do that, but I have been considering moving all of Great Britain one hex to the northwest, which would then allow for a 'normal' TOAW English Channel. I don't think this fix would have any negative effect at all.

... Building new units seems to be something that could be worked around ...

So far I've got a system where if a unit is destroyed, a Theater Option pops up to rebuild it. It doesn't cost BRP's, but there are a limited number of replacements, so rebuilding and building units does cost something. And instead of gaining BRP's by capturing countries, the player gets disband units that add to the replacements. (So I'm thinking that Replacements will take the place of BRP's).

Readiness Values however seem to be a real show stopper?

Definately. I'm hoping that someone can provide a fix, or maybe it can be addressed in a future patch, otherwise it kind of ruins the scenario.

[sPzAbt653]

I skimmed through the TR manual, and seemed to not find a clear definition of what sizes the TR counters ...

Thus far I've been designing the units as Corp size. And so far it seems that I need to have a few more than were supplied in Third Reich due to the replacement issue (in Third Reich you can replace units at the end of your turn, but with this TOAW model replacement takes two turns).

[sPzAbt653]

Strategic Warfare - Axis Subs and Allied Bombers.

I don't intend to put any effort into modeling this aspect of Third Reich. But if anyone can put forth a workable idea, I will entertain it.

[sPzAbt653]

Hard to represent the BRP's and ability to buy your units in TOAW - consumes too many events.

Yes, but I hear that we might soon have 10,000 events to work with, so it may be possible.

[Crossroads]

@USXpat

Keep up the good work! It seems you are really testing the limits of the engine... This can only be good as I am sure it provides food for thought for those working with the future TOAW upgrades? [:)]

@sPzAbt653

Good stuff, I hope something tangible comes out of this [:)] 

Yes, moving UK 'a bit north' was what I meant whit my clumsy English. I am sure no-one minds, and that's what the TR map looks like as well.

I sincerely hope good people better skilled than myself would jump to assist you in creating this scenario. Getting the basics first, adding details later sounds like the way to go.

I hope somehas an idea to "fix" the Readiness Values for this particular need, so I am bumping the issue up again [&o]

[pzgndr]

I would and will settle for a TOAW scenario that is reminiscent to "feel" of the Third Reich board game. A grand strategic view of the WW II over Europe.

My Advanced Third Reich mod conversion for the latest Strategic Command Global Conflict GOLD edition is nearing completion. Yes, the game still uses the PG interface with no unit stacking and tiles instead of hexes, and I've implemented monthly turns instead of seasonal turns, but overall the game plays out as well as can be expected for an adaptation of the boardgame.

My motivation for all this madness over the past several years is simple. I enjoyed the original boardgame and wanted a decent computer game version. I've looked around but IMHO the Strategic Command series offers the best option for making this happen. Despite the no stacking, tiles and such, what else offers WWII ETO grand strategy, diplomacy, production, AND challenging AI for both sides? My A3R mod does. [;)]

[Crossroads]

I finally got my TOAW - woo hoo! I believe should Matrix have a finder's fee system in place all you fine gentlemen who chipped in here should ask for your well deserved commissions [;)]

Pzgndr, a PM is heading your way shortly if you don't mind...

[Grimnirsson]

I've heard it indeed requires a W98 setup and will not run on XP or newer.

I once had the game installed on a XP computer but it was a downloaded version and although it run...it run quite fast...too fast actually to follow what was going on [:D]

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Also a computer game from the 1990's. I've got it fired up on my W98 machine [:D]

Lucky you! I've heard it indeed requires a W98 setup and will not run on XP or newer. Is it so?

I recall playing "Nato Commander" over Commodore 64.



Maybe I should check whether is is still available for my CBM64 emulator for PC [:)].

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Agreed. I think one of the graphics modders made some tiles that were similar. Maybe if they come across this thread they can send me what they have and we can see how it looks. Of course, the mechanics are very different between 3R and TOAW, but I think we are talking about the possibility of a similar scale and unit count, followed by whatever else we can make similar, and end up with a non-monster that is Risk-like. BRP's and Exploitation seem unatainable, as well as Naval aspects.

I agree if it is a RISK we end up with it is not worth the effort.

Then again, BRP's have to do with reinforcements (if looked simply at), that can be somehow controlled, based on certain events? Mike's 1942-1945 mentions the effect of bombing for an example? Exploitation I could replace with the TOAW game mechanics. Naval aspects have to do again with being able to supply remote areas as the African Theatre of War, also whether one feels if it is possible to risk invasion to England. Some rules / events could perhaps be used here as well.

And, while the map you pictured has the exact same scale as TR, it could easily be e.g. three times bigger and still be not a particularly large. Then, a total of some 600 units made available to players, and perhaps we would be ending up with somthing that is more TR and less RISK.

Like Retro stuff? Check out my 'homage' to SSG's 80s clasics and tribute to Roger Keating (RIP). Visit the Gefechtsstand!

https://gefechtsstand.wordpress.com/201 ... -is-ready/

Klink, Oberst

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Like Retro stuff?

Heh, who doesn't? Thanks for the tutorial and scenarios available at your site! I am going through them and doing my best to earn a transfer to Eastern Front (now there's first to everything?) in time Mr Panzer Abteilung ships his new TR scenario [:)]

Governato's Eastern Front 1941-1945 looks like a blast as well. Oh well. So little time, so many battles to fight...

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I've made a couple of 50km/hex scenarios covering Barbarossa (Soviet Union 1941) and the final year (Germany 1945).

Found them !!! [:)]

With GJK:s map mod:


"Advanced Third Reich 1941 scenario"



"Advanced Third Reich 1945 scenario"

[Crossroads]

I compressed the pics too much, the sc prints look like cr@p... In reality they are very much like the TR boardgame pictured in the OP. [;)]

[sPzAbt653]

Yes it does look nice. But to get the movement allowances to work out I added 'cropland' to all the open hexes, which kind of buggers up the cleaness. The placenames should probably be changed to black, and maybe the fonts tinkered with to get them to look like Third Reich. If anyone has that stuff figured out, feel free to send it my way.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

I compressed the pics too much, the sc prints look like cr@p... In reality they are very much like the TR boardgame pictured in the OP. [;)]

Here's my own screenshot of Soviet Union 1941:

[Curtis Lemay]

And of Germany 1945:

[Crossroads]

@ sPzAbt653

I really like where you are going with that scenario! The scale although I guess not officially supported nevertheless brings a new level not available anywhere else. Being able to easily capture the whole ETA including Med will be really nice.

I like the look of the UK, now clearly an island. I assume the contemporary Brits themselves do not mind if some extra miles separate them now from Continental Europe [:'(]

[sPzAbt653]

France and Britain are in.

[sPzAbt653]

The Russkies too !