Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[BBfanboy]

Re: Americal division - I expect you are aware that the PP cost goes up if it takes on more squads, and have therefore set it to "no reinforcements".
What is your experience with this setting? I started a new game recently [currently at Jan. 11/42] and from day one I set the units I needed to buy to "No Replacements" which automatically sets "No Upgrades" as well. I also did this with all the Permanently Restricted US units to save devices for when I did buy units and remove the "No Replacements" restriction.
Well guess what - all the units are filling out with troops regardless of the NR setting. [:(]
Not only has this increased the cost of units I hoped to buy as cheaply as possible before they filled out, it used up devices in the pools to fill out the PR units that will never need those devices! [:@]
Am I missing something about how to manage this stuff?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Re: Americal division - I expect you are aware that the PP cost goes up if it takes on more squads, and have therefore set it to "no reinforcements".
What is your experience with this setting? I started a new game recently [currently at Jan. 11/42] and from day one I set the units I needed to buy to "No Replacements" which automatically sets "No Upgrades" as well. I also did this with all the Permanently Restricted US units to save devices for when I did buy units and remove the "No Replacements" restriction.
Well guess what - all the units are filling out with troops regardless of the NR setting. [:(]
Not only has this increased the cost of units I hoped to buy as cheaply as possible before they filled out, it used up devices in the pools to fill out the PR units that will never need those devices! [:@]
Am I missing something about how to manage this stuff?

I have Americal set to OFF, not for the better reason you state but only because I'm clueless what all the fancy new ASCII symbols mean (= and such.) [:)] I don't want to get to combine time and find I have arty mismatches or something.

I have not seen what you say, but I confess I don't watch for device leaks at all. I assumed if it was OFF it was off. We set all replacements and all base building to Off in the pre-game by agreement. I do watch the aoperationsreport.txt every day and that report gives device flows. I assumed it was complete. If it is I have not seen any leakage.

Upgrades does come Off when replacements are the same. In most cases that doesn't matter since an upgrade is years away. I manage/look for TOE upgrades through Tracker though, not in-game.

[BBfanboy]

It's easy to tell if a unit set to "Off" is getting devices added anyway. They show up first as "disabled", the amount in brackets before the number of active devices of the same type. I could understand if all my units set to accept replacements were already filled out and the other units sitting in bases with lots of supply started to fill out anyway, but that is not the case. I have a couple of unrestricted PAC FLEET Base Forces that just need a couple of infantry squads, a dozen support squads and a few vehicles to be complete, and these devices are going instead to the Permanently Restricted US units that have "no replacements" set. I realize the game only allows a certain number of devices added to a unit per week, but that is no reason to drain the damn pools giving out to units that do not need them!
Ah, well - put it down to the inefficiencies of the supply system vs. what the planners intend. [8|]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It's easy to tell if a unit set to "Off" is getting devices added anyway. They show up first as "disabled", the amount in brackets before the number of active devices of the same type. I could understand if all my units set to accept replacements were already filled out and the other units sitting in bases with lots of supply started to fill out anyway, but that is not the case. I have a couple of unrestricted PAC FLEET Base Forces that just need a couple of infantry squads, a dozen support squads and a few vehicles to be complete, and these devices are going instead to the Permanently Restricted US units that have "no replacements" set. I realize the game only allows a certain number of devices added to a unit per week, but that is no reason to drain the damn pools giving out to units that do not need them!
Ah, well - put it down to the inefficiencies of the supply system vs. what the planners intend. [8|]

This might be worth a query to Michael. I don't think any should be going if OFF is set. If they are there might be a hole in the button logic. Or there could be some undocumented thing where permanently-restricted get devices out of thin air in some cases or something similar.

Or it could be a bug he can fix easily with a line of code. You never know.

[Bullwinkle58]

February 2, 1942

Groundhog Day

Like the classic Bill Murray movie, today was just like many other days.

1) Lots of bombers get lost on night bombing missions. Johnson, Burma. Those that pressed on do no damage. Chinese bombers try to hit Prome and Toungoo air fields, and do, for no damage.

2) Sweeps at Palembang. One Hurricane lost.

3) Sweeps at Bataan. No P-40s lost. (Yawn.)

4) Bombing at Praboemoelih again. Maybe I should send an LCU to sit there and wait for the paratroops? (Another yawn.)

5) Sabang, Singers, Bataan get bombed. A few Japanese bombers are destroyed, over 20 damaged. Some supplies burn up. The pattern repeats . . .

6) Chinese troops get a rain of steel as they seek a Burmese vacation.

7) Allied daytime bombing of stack moving across countryside near Magwe. Infantry regiment damaged. This is new intel. Have now seen tanks, base force, and infantry. This stack was Oscar CAPed.

8) First AVG CAP trap works over Meiktila. Even though AVG not upgraded, unescorted Bettys are meat.

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 29

Allied aircraft
H81-A3 x 6
Buffalo I x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed, 4 damaged

9) Vacant Shaoyang taken by single regiment. Chinese former defenders about 50 miles west. Still, Japan did not move the Changsha stack forward to do this. Yet.

Give several Chinese units in mountains between Paoshan and Lashio orders to move into mountains and dig. Continue redeployment of Mandalay hordes into jungle, mostly to SE and SW. Begin upgrades on about half DD force eligible, and 1/3 of CAs. Scores of merchants as well.

Singers goes to Forts 4. Will stop there and focus on supply build.

Where's that toaster? It needs to go for a dip in my bathwater as I see if I can break this neverending cycle . . . [:)]

[BBfanboy]

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

That won't work either! [shifts nervously, straightens loud tie] Moose never was popular. Or attractive. I tell ya-when he was a kid, his mother had to tie pork chops to his ears, so that the dog would play with him! No respect!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

Wasn't that a great movie? Except for the Sonny and Cher song?

The piano bit made me think he was in the loop for at least five years, his time. Did Paux. have a shrink?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Won't work Moose!
You need to start learning to play piano and do ice scultures with a chainsaw. Oh, and get some neighbourhood kids to climb trees so you can catch them when they fall.

That won't work either! [shifts nervously, straightens loud tie] Moose never was popular. Or attractive. I tell ya-when he was a kid, his mother had to tie pork chops to his ears, so that the dog would play with him! No respect!

You forgot [rimshot.] [:'(]

[Bullwinkle58]

Status report

[BBfanboy]

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!

[Lomri]

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-ma ... og-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!

Yeah, but mostly early.

The Mavis ops losses are interesting too. A lot of long-range transporting going on?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!

Yeah, but mostly early.

The Mavis ops losses are interesting too. A lot of long-range transporting going on?

No. The H6K4 Mavis losses you see on your screen are the patrol / scout / recon version of the plane. The H6K4-L version is the one capable of significant transport. More likely the Mavises were lost because they are dogs in the air and they tend to OPS loss a lot, even after a routine long-range naval search mission.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-ma ... og-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.

I think you guys should bring this up in Tech. It's possible Michael nicked the Replacements code when he put in stockpiling, or something similar. Base forces have always been a trapdoor ready to devour infantry squads needed in combat formations if one were not careful. In my first AI game the USMC squads went to base forces and forevermore refused to fill out the 2nd Marine Division until I was pointed in the right direction by a dev (I think it might have been Symon.)

I read the Groundhog Day link. I think his estimate is too long, moslty because he thinks learning French takes twelve years! Even if it was five years, or ten, would many of us still be showing up for work every day at the hollow stump? I sure wouldn't be. [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Looks like you have taken a good toll of his torpedo bombers already. That always brightens an AFB's day!

Yeah, but mostly early.

The Mavis ops losses are interesting too. A lot of long-range transporting going on?

No. The H6K4 Mavis losses you see on your screen are the patrol / scout / recon version of the plane. The H6K4-L version is the one capable of significant transport. More likely the Mavises were lost because they are dogs in the air and they tend to OPS loss a lot, even after a routine long-range naval search mission.

Well, even so, 25 lost (100 engines!) in seven weeks is stiff.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Well, even so, 25 lost (100 engines!) in seven weeks is stiff.

Yes, it is. I reckon that a high importance on naval search plus long-range aerial reconnaisance of strategic targets in and around the Hawaiian islands has put these guys on overtime. Mavis no likee overtime.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-ma ... og-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.

I think you guys should bring this up in Tech. It's possible Michael nicked the Replacements code when he put in stockpiling, or something similar. Base forces have always been a trapdoor ready to devour infantry squads needed in combat formations if one were not careful. In my first AI game the USMC squads went to base forces and forevermore refused to fill out the 2nd Marine Division until I was pointed in the right direction by a dev (I think it might have been Symon.)

I read the Groundhog Day link. I think his estimate is too long, moslty because he thinks learning French takes twelve years! Even if it was five years, or ten, would many of us still be showing up for work every day at the hollow stump? I sure wouldn't be. [:)]

IIRC w/ beta 1121:
1. if a 42 inf unit is at full strength, and upgrade is on, then this unit will upgrade to next(43) at no cost of inf(43) strength points from the pool.
2. Over a period of 6 months, all 42 inf pool points will slowly become 43 points, then 44 points. Someone said : "all they are doing is opening crates w/ new weapons".
3. For the upgrade to occur:
a. This will happen faster if the unit is at rest.
B. In a base w/ 20000supply.
c. Also next to a parent corp/Army HQ.
D. IIRC I have seen the upgrade occur in the field in a hex w/enemy units, but not often.
E. At least one point of the year sqd must be in the pool for the upgrade to occur w/ stockpiling turned off. So be careful. If u try to upgrade a less then full strength unit then you may get screwed!!!

all said and I may be off topic,sorry.

[CaptBeefheart]

Surely we can all agree that the plural of "Mavis" is "Mavi?"

Cheers,
CC

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: bigred

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lomri

I have device issues too although I really only focus on infantry squads. When '42 inf squads started upgrading in BFs all over the place I went into the ground forces menu and fiddled around there turning all upgrades off. For instance clicking through the "restricted" list and turning those off. Then engineers and turning those off. I thought this was a slam dunk.

But it hasn't been. Somehow BFs still got upgrades sucking precious modern squads. I'm in summer 43 and the same thing still seems to happen. I don't look frequently enough so really I start to question my sanity. "Didn't I turn these OFF??". I'm starting to think that maybe game patches or some other process flips them on again when I'm not looking.

What HAS worked is using the stockpile functionality in the pools menu. Turn everyone off, turn stock pile on, then watch your levels, pick your favorite unit, turn them on, turn stock pile off, hope things work the way you expect. And usually it doesn't happen right away so I forget to flip things back the way they were until I see some random BF upgrade. (Didn't I turn that BF upgrade off? aaah!).


As for how many days he spent in Groundhog Day, the creator said ten years, but this guy thought otherwise:
http://whatculture.com/film/just-how-ma ... og-day.php

But I think even HE is too low.

I think you guys should bring this up in Tech. It's possible Michael nicked the Replacements code when he put in stockpiling, or something similar. Base forces have always been a trapdoor ready to devour infantry squads needed in combat formations if one were not careful. In my first AI game the USMC squads went to base forces and forevermore refused to fill out the 2nd Marine Division until I was pointed in the right direction by a dev (I think it might have been Symon.)

I read the Groundhog Day link. I think his estimate is too long, moslty because he thinks learning French takes twelve years! Even if it was five years, or ten, would many of us still be showing up for work every day at the hollow stump? I sure wouldn't be. [:)]

IIRC w/ beta 1121:
1. if a 42 inf unit is at full strength, and upgrade is on, then this unit will upgrade to next(43) at no cost of inf(43) strength points from the pool.
2. Over a period of 6 months, all 42 inf pool points will slowly become 43 points, then 44 points. Someone said : "all they are doing is opening crates w/ new weapons".
3. For the upgrade to occur:
a. This will happen faster if the unit is at rest.
B. In a base w/ 20000supply.
c. Also next to a parent corp/Army HQ.
D. IIRC I have seen the upgrade occur in the field in a hex w/enemy units, but not often.
E. At least one point of the year sqd must be in the pool for the upgrade to occur w/ stockpiling turned off. So be careful. If u try to upgrade a less then full strength unit then you may get screwed!!!

all said and I may be off topic,sorry.

Yeah, the questions are coming from situations where it looks like units with replacements OFF are still drawing them.