Impressed by the demo

[henri51]

I just finished the demo, including the additional Normandy scenario, the latter took about 4 hours to complete.I am very impressed, although I did not buy any of the previous installments. But after watching some of the excellent Let's play videos, I got the demo and I find this game more fun than the Panzer Corps series, which is OK in its own right, but that I find repetitive. Here the scripted battles are nail-biting, and just when one decides to go all-out for the victory, a new wave of Germans (Normandy scenario) appears, and one's favorite unit is caught in the open by three onrushing German tanks and 3 or 4 halftracks! Were it not for my two B17 bomber raids that fortunately fell right on top of two different German waves and almost completely obliterated them, my goose would have been cooked.

Fighter attacks take only one move before they come in, but bomber raids take two moves, so if the battle is in a fluid state and the enemy units move away, the raid could strike only grass and buildings. Also if you have just used a bomber raid to get rid of two pesky Pz4's, and you have to wait 4 moves plus the two waiting moves before the next one, and just then a wave of German armor appears at the edge of the town, a low part of your anatomy could be yelling "Bravo!".

I find this game the day after EU4 demo comes out and a couple of weeks before Total War Rome II comes out. Decisions, decisions...

Try the demo, the Normandy scenario will unlock after you play the demo campaign. You will see for yourself if you like it.

[vonRocko]

According to matrix/slitherine demos are worthless! They say you can't get the feel of a game. I would try the demo, and possibly buy the game, but I'll listen to their advice and not waste my time.

[DSWargamer]

All I can say in support of BA, is it is refreshing to play a wargame, where you can get trashed, made to feel like you sucked, get beaten and beaten badly

In too many games these days, the AI is nothing, plays poorly and the challenge is minimal and a few playings later you are bored.

With this game, it will take you a looong time to actually hack your way to the finish of just the you vs the game solo playings, and then there is multiplayer, where you can reeeeally find out if you are any good at all.

And it's nice that a person can fire up a game, and you can play ALL of a battle in the game in a single sitting and actually conclude it.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
According to matrix/slitherine demos are worthless! They say you can't get the feel of a game. I would try the demo, and possibly buy the game, but I'll listen to their advice and not waste my time.

Our actual position, based on actual results, is that most people don't give demos enough time for them to have any positive effect. For someone who is willing to give a demo enough time and if the demo is well made, it can be a great tool. Unfortunately, those customers appear to be the statistical minority and for the rest other methods work better. For a method that only works well for a minority of customers and is much more costly and time consuming for the development team than other possible methods that work equally well or better, it's hard to justify except for certain games (of which BA was one).

Regards,

- Erik

[Toby42]

I first tried the Demo when it came out. I passed! Then I watched the AAR's on youtube. I was interested. Then I bought and haven't been sorry... The AAR's did it for me!

[henri51]

I watched the videos too and they helped me to decide to buy the game (which I did today). I disagree that the demo does not give a good idea of the game - it does and the Normandy scenario that is unlocked in the demo took me half a day to complete, and although it is not that difficult to win, gives a pretty good idea of how the game plays.

[IainMcNeil]

As Erik said above we think demos only work for some games. Complex games do not demo well because you need to be invested in the game mentally to get the most out of it. We think demos only work for the more approachable games like BA.

[henri51]

Of course you have a right to your opinion, but the very most complex games like EU4 and CK2 have demos, so not all game producers share your opinion. Personally I think that a demo of ANY game can help sell the game. We probably agree however that good videos of gameplay can do more to convince people to buy the game than a demo. AARs can help too, if they are well done.

[Toby42]

Demos have kept me from buying more games than making a buy!!

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: henri51
it does and the Normandy scenario that is unlocked in the demo took me half a day to complete, and although it is not that difficult to win, gives a pretty good idea of how the game plays.

This helps point out the issue we've seen with demos - if you played the BA demo to completion and invested half a day in it, you get a great idea how the game plays and are likely to purchase the full game. Unfortunately, most people are willing to invest 5-10 minutes in a demo and we find that we can inform them better in those 5-10 minutes through other methods. If they spend their limited time on a demo and they don't immediately "get" the game they'll assume it's not for them and once they've tried the demo, they don't tend to look further. Demos can actually mislead more people than they help because of the problem with how much time the average gamer gives a demo.

Regards,

- Erik

[vonRocko]

I can't believe that trying out a game can be a bad thing. It just isn't logical. It's just to see if I like the mechanics, not to learn the game and all its nuances or components. How hard and expensive could it be to release a few turns of a game, or a few minutes of gameplay if it is a realtime game. " If they spend their limited time on a demo and they don't immediately "get" the game they'll assume it's not for them and once they've tried the demo, they don't tend to look further. Demos can actually mislead more people than they help because of the problem with how much time the average gamer gives a demo. " I doubt very much, that people like that are looking at AAR's and searching for reviews either. Just my opinion,and I won't mention it again.[;)]

P.s.-When you meet investors or the press, at places like historicon, do you show them AARs' and reviews or do you DEMOnstrate the game for them?

p.s.s-"Demos have kept me from buying more games than making a buy!!" Well demos have made me buy many games that I wouldn't have. You would think that you would like demos because they kept you from wasting money on a game you don't like.[&:]

[Toby42]

I tried the Demo when it first came out. I was put off by what looked like a "Graphic Novel" instead of a game. Titanwarrior started posting his AAR's on Youtube. I went through a couple of them and saw in them what I couldn't find in the Demo! That's just my path to making a purchase. I'm sure that other's make take a different approach?

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: Treale

I tried the Demo when it first came out. I was put off by what looked like a "Graphic Novel" instead of a game. Titanwarrior started posting his AAR's on Youtube. I went through a couple of them and saw in them what I couldn't find in the Demo! That's just my path to making a purchase. I'm sure that other's make take a different approach?

Why can't people have all these tools available to make a decision? Or is your experience all that matters?

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

ORIGINAL: Treale

I tried the Demo when it first came out. I was put off by what looked like a "Graphic Novel" instead of a game. Titanwarrior started posting his AAR's on Youtube. I went through a couple of them and saw in them what I couldn't find in the Demo! That's just my path to making a purchase. I'm sure that other's make take a different approach?

Why can't people have all these tools available to make a decision? Or is your experience all that matters?

That's a condescending comment! I just stated how I came to make a purchase with this particular game. Nothing controversial, just my experience. Making conversation!!! Sometimes a Demo leads me to a buy, and sometimes it doesn't. I mostly rely on others experience, or the subject matter, or the developer?

I did the Demo of AJE and made the buy. It may be a good game, but it's not for me! I just can't get into it! Demo yes, Demo no! It's not a deal breaker for me either way. Sometimes you just pay your money and take your chances?

[vonRocko]

My apologies. But if demos' don't matter to you one way or the other, then why are you even posting in a demo thread? Demos' do matter to me, that is why I posted.

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

My apologies. But if demos' don't matter to you one way or the other, then why are you even posting in a demo thread? Demos' do matter to me, that is why I posted.

No apology necessary. We're just Historical Gamers looking to get our "FIX" [:)]

I just was posting my experience with the Demo for BA, and how I came to make a buy. If I just relied on my first experience with the Demo, I would have missed out on a neat game! Titanwarrior's AAR's brought me back to the Demo and a little more in-depth look at it.

Take Care, and enjoy ....

[vonRocko]

[:)]

[Erik Rutins]

Hi vonRocko,

ORIGINAL: vonRocko
Why can't people have all these tools available to make a decision? Or is your experience all that matters?

As explained above, ideally they could. But in this world, we have to make choices about where to put limited resources and demos have proven less valuable than other ways of explaining/promoting a game, so they are not the first choice, or sometimes even the second, as a tool for explanation and promotion.

We do demo our games at conventions, but that's effectively a guided tour from someone who knows the game already, much different than just downloading a demo and trying it yourself. It's more similar to watching a "Let's Play" video.

Regards,

- Erik

[Blond_Knight]

ORIGINAL: Treale

I I was put off by what looked like a "Graphic Novel" instead of a game.

I always thought that was part of Battlefield Academy's charm.

[Wolfe1759]

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

ORIGINAL: Treale

I I was put off by what looked like a "Graphic Novel" instead of a game.

I always thought that was part of Battlefield Academy's charm.

Particularly if you read this as a kid [:)]