A Glorious Way to Die: John 3rd vs. NY59Giants BTS: Lite

[John 3rd]

What matters is that MICHAEL considers it to be essential for his war plans within the game.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: BattleMoose

Without Pearl and Perth, how would you plan to get fuel and supplies into Australia?

The most obvious way would be Cape Town to Port Augusta, Adelaide or Melbourne.

[Yaab]

Los Angeles to Rangiroa (port maxes out a level 5), Rangiroa to Auckland (port maxes out at level 9), Auckland to Melbourne.

[vicberg]

Are you playing with Auto Victory? If so, then anywhere that gets you closer. Alaska area has some big VP there. I'm not in front of the game right now, but Anchorage is 250, Juno is 500, Prince Rhupert is 250. That's 1000 right there, not including the smaller bases.

Here's a question though. Perth isn't vital to war effort. Alaska isn't very strategic except for some bombing and securing the Kuriles for a while. SoPac isn't truly vital, since there are alternate routes into OZ. If Auto-Victory is in play, expansion makes sense. If it isn't, then why bother? Secure the perimeter, conserve fuel and supply. Make sure outer and inner perimeters have sufficient air/construction and build everything up. If you have an opponent that you KNOW you can lure into a fight, like some other AARs that I'm reading (names redacted to protect the innocent or any minors possibly involved), then makes sense to continue the expansion. Otherwise, I'm wondering why Japanese players are always expanding to point of economic exhaustion?

[Panther Bait]

I'd have to agree that interdicting the SLOC from West Coast to SOPAC to OZ is not terribly useful if you leave the East Coast-Cape Town-Oz route open. Unfortunately, it seems like the Indian Ocean route can really only be closed at either end, Cape Town or Oz. The rest of the route is all open ocean. And I agree with others that taking Perth is not a one-and-done route to closing the Indian Ocean SLOC.

In fact closing (or even just seriously threatening) the Pacific SLOC pretty much removes the usefulness of using Pearl for raiding (you can't raid shipping that doesn't exist) or creating a fleet engagement. If I were playing the Allies, the fleet engagement won't happen until I was ready to counter-invade Pearl, which is probably quite a ways away. That makes Pearl a strategic problem because you either need to maintain lots of surface assets near there almost continuously (meaning they can't be used elsewhere), or inevitably ceding the initiative to the USN when the invasion does happen, probably late when they are at near parity in carriers anyways.

Closing both SLOCs at the same time, if it can even be accomplished, might get you a fleet engagement near Oz, or force the Allies to take single-axis approach (like India-Burma-Southeast Asia) that abandons Oz completely.

My thoughts anyways,
Mike

P.S. My stirring-the-pot, not very practicable, lunatic suggestion would be to invade Cape Town. Really make Michael sweat.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Los Angeles to Rangiroa (port maxes out a level 5), Rangiroa to Auckland (port maxes out at level 9), Auckland to Melbourne.

The long-legged AK's and TK's can reach Southern Oz via the "polar route" without a stop so you don't even need Tahiti. Now, they have to refuel for the trip back, which is a minor inefficiency but, as there are plenty of long haul TK's and unlimited fuel in the US it doesnt matter.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I'd have to agree that interdicting the SLOC from West Coast to SOPAC to OZ is not terribly useful if you leave the East Coast-Cape Town-Oz route open. Unfortunately, it seems like the Indian Ocean route can really only be closed at either end, Cape Town or Oz. The rest of the route is all open ocean. And I agree with others that taking Perth is not a one-and-done route to closing the Indian Ocean SLOC.

In fact closing (or even just seriously threatening) the Pacific SLOC pretty much removes the usefulness of using Pearl for raiding (you can't raid shipping that doesn't exist) or creating a fleet engagement. If I were playing the Allies, the fleet engagement won't happen until I was ready to counter-invade Pearl, which is probably quite a ways away. That makes Pearl a strategic problem because you either need to maintain lots of surface assets near there almost continuously (meaning they can't be used elsewhere), or inevitably ceding the initiative to the USN when the invasion does happen, probably late when they are at near parity in carriers anyways.

Very interesting analysis.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

P.S. My stirring-the-pot, not very practicable, lunatic suggestion would be to invade Cape Town. Really make Michael sweat.

Intersting. How does one trigger the activation of the Zulu?

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

P.S. My stirring-the-pot, not very practicable, lunatic suggestion would be to invade Cape Town. Really make Michael sweat.

Intersting. How does one trigger the activation of the Zulu?

Cross the Line of Death, by marching north to Mozambique [:D]

[desicat]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

P.S. My stirring-the-pot, not very practicable, lunatic suggestion would be to invade Cape Town. Really make Michael sweat.

Intersting. How does one trigger the activation of the Zulu?

By manufacturing bayonets of course!

Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle.

Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle.

Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind.

[Sangeli]

So I thought about this a bit last night. Here's what I concluded...

I think that ultimately a NA adventure only makes sense if you can get the AV. I fear that any damage you can put on industry, even of very important air frames, won't have a lasting consequence.

On the other hand, I think there is much to be gained by isolating Australia by taking Perth and moving deep into the SoPac. Such a move is possible without PH as well, but with PH in your hands your eastern flank is a lot more secure. You won't need a lot to secure the rest of the SoPac nor will you need a lot to defend it for a long time.

What I'd be interested in seeing is trying to set up a convoy choke-point somewhere in French Polynesia using patrol planes and subs to give you warning of approaching convoys. French Polynesia is one of the few places on the map that goes near the very southern edge; it is theoretically possible to have continuous patrol coverage to the map edge. Yes its a very long supply route but if you are only using the bases for patrol planes it's not a huge logistical requirement. But spotting convoys is only half of it of course; you then have to interdict them. And being able to get the fuel and supply for the interdiction may prove very challenging given the distances involved. Truth be told I'm not sure how viable that plan is. It will depend a lot on how Michael deals with the convoy situation and how early you spot his convoys. If you are able to keep an eye on them with subs and patrol planes as they move through the chokepoints then I imagine you could probably do a lot of damage.

[John 3rd]

Just got home and haven't had a chance to read the thread but did run the turn. Had a VERY NICE SS Round:

I-21 SINKS DD Bagley near San Diego with 1 TT
RO-33 CRIPPLES CL Boise with two TTs near Broome. GREAT!!!

...and the BIG one...for the SECOND time this war...

I-21 hits CV Saratoga with a TT near San Diego.


BANZAI!!!

[John 3rd]

I KNEW IT!

[John 3rd]

I was SOOOOOOOOOOOO right. I know my opponent!

[John 3rd]

OK. Time for dinner...

[BattleMoose]

Couldn't you have a picket lines of submarines based from Fiji for scouting and release interdiction fleets also based from Suva? Or Pago Pago even. After a few successful interdictions he may well position substantial assets to protect the convoys and they can actually be the primary target.

[John 3rd]

It seems widening the salient by taking Suva--Nadi makes sense.

Taking the Marquesa's would move the air search line significantly eastwards.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I'd have to agree that interdicting the SLOC from West Coast to SOPAC to OZ is not terribly useful if you leave the East Coast-Cape Town-Oz route open. Unfortunately, it seems like the Indian Ocean route can really only be closed at either end, Cape Town or Oz. The rest of the route is all open ocean. And I agree with others that taking Perth is not a one-and-done route to closing the Indian Ocean SLOC.

In fact closing (or even just seriously threatening) the Pacific SLOC pretty much removes the usefulness of using Pearl for raiding (you can't raid shipping that doesn't exist) or creating a fleet engagement. If I were playing the Allies, the fleet engagement won't happen until I was ready to counter-invade Pearl, which is probably quite a ways away. That makes Pearl a strategic problem because you either need to maintain lots of surface assets near there almost continuously (meaning they can't be used elsewhere), or inevitably ceding the initiative to the USN when the invasion does happen, probably late when they are at near parity in carriers anyways.

Closing both SLOCs at the same time, if it can even be accomplished, might get you a fleet engagement near Oz, or force the Allies to take single-axis approach (like India-Burma-Southeast Asia) that abandons Oz completely.

My thoughts anyways,
Mike

P.S. My stirring-the-pot, not very practicable, lunatic suggestion would be to invade Cape Town. Really make Michael sweat.

This thinking is pretty seriously good. I WANT Michael using convoys that I can go after and SINK. Taking everything in the far SE of the map would probably preclude that from happening, however, using Pago Pago and Suva as advanced bases makes for a bit of excitement.

The two screenshots above conclusively PROVE where each of the major portions of the American and Allied Fleets. This is a HUGE intel boon. It proves what I already suspected and allows for some serious opportunity...

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Turn ONE looks good. Had to make some minor corrections when I test drove it but now we're OK. SAFETY TIP for new players: Always run your turn a couple of times before you send it for the start of the war. With all those 1,000s of clicks you are bound to miss one or make a boneheaded choice with a another.

Just now trying to get caught up on this AAR! Great to see how you organize Japan's initial forces with a major strategic push right off the bat.

Sorry to quote a post from months ago, but I got to this point and was confused - how do you run a turn before you send it? I thought once you set it up as a PBEM game, you couldn't switch it to vs AI? I've been playing Japan in several scenarios, but haven't tried in a GC yet (that's my next goal). Thanks!

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I'd have to agree that interdicting the SLOC from West Coast to SOPAC to OZ is not terribly useful if you leave the East Coast-Cape Town-Oz route open. Unfortunately, it seems like the Indian Ocean route can really only be closed at either end, Cape Town or Oz. The rest of the route is all open ocean. And I agree with others that taking Perth is not a one-and-done route to closing the Indian Ocean SLOC.

In fact closing (or even just seriously threatening) the Pacific SLOC pretty much removes the usefulness of using Pearl for raiding (you can't raid shipping that doesn't exist) or creating a fleet engagement. If I were playing the Allies, the fleet engagement won't happen until I was ready to counter-invade Pearl, which is probably quite a ways away. That makes Pearl a strategic problem because you either need to maintain lots of surface assets near there almost continuously (meaning they can't be used elsewhere), or inevitably ceding the initiative to the USN when the invasion does happen, probably late when they are at near parity in carriers anyways.

Closing both SLOCs at the same time, if it can even be accomplished, might get you a fleet engagement near Oz, or force the Allies to take single-axis approach (like India-Burma-Southeast Asia) that abandons Oz completely.

My thoughts anyways,
Mike

P.S. My stirring-the-pot, not very practicable, lunatic suggestion would be to invade Cape Town. Really make Michael sweat.

This thinking is pretty seriously good. I WANT Michael using convoys that I can go after and SINK. Taking everything in the far SE of the map would probably preclude that from happening, however, using Pago Pago and Suva as advanced bases makes for a bit of excitement.

The two screenshots above conclusively PROVE where each of the major portions of the American and Allied Fleets. This is a HUGE intel boon. It proves what I already suspected and allows for some serious opportunity...

Can't say what your opponent would do, but if you went as far as Pago Pago against me that would trigger an abandonment of any effort to get to OZ across the Pacific and divert everything to Cape Town.

Pago Pago is poised to interdict any attempts to get by it further south and would certainly serve as a trigger for me.

Perhaps you opponent will still try to make runs to Auckland from Panama as they enter near the lower map edge and head straight across south of Tahiti.