Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

[Lowpe]

I am not sure how it works on the Allied side of things, but here is a list of CVE that spawn at San Diego. If this were Japan, they would be destroyed and VP awarded for their destruction.

Not to mention the destruction of all the Plane factories.

What a delicious target.[;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

First blush at the West Coast planning. I have identified 11 Divisions to attack with. Some are free now; others will be free in a week; others in about two months.

The engineering and aviation support will be a struggle. I have currently 9 AKVs and I was thinking of primarily transporting in all fighter squadrons.

The goal is to sack and burn San Diego and then pretty much leave.

I need to calculate out shipping...I figure it will take almost 100% of Japanese shipping to pull this off. In fact, this is my next task -- to examine my shipping capacity.

Debating about west of LA landings...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am not sure how it works on the Allied side of things, but here is a list of CVE that spawn at San Diego.

Pretty sure that won't happen as allies have no production per se .... but I have never actually tried that, so it will be interesting to say the least.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Debating about west of LA landings...

And exiting from San Diego?

nice enhancement ... those bases likely WON'T have CD's ... and then you can set a blocking force. Figure you will lose one ID on this trip ... your blocker ... tough to extract that last force. Not saying you won't, but I would plan that I do ...

[Crackaces]

I do believe That will activate all the troops that were intended for the Torch Operation? If so .. and this game continues .. I personally would find a way to get these units into India .. the extra Armor would be devastating IMHO ..

[witpqs]

If you land there, would you ever get to San Diego?

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

If you land there, would you ever get to San Diego?

You are alluding to the fact that every restricted unit would rail to San Diego? I am also supposing that the units for the US suddenly appear where ? I have never explored this possiblity?

EDIT: From the archives: (I put Pearl Harbor in RED Because I have no clue what happends if this base is occupied by JJ ...

From Bullwinkle: tm.asp?m=2620232&mpage=1&key=line%2Cdea ... forcements?
Post #1 (Edited)

.............................................

VMD-1 arrives at San Diego
VMD-2 arrives at San Diego
VMF-123 arrives at San Diego
VMF-124 arrives at San Diego
VMSB-143 arrives at San Diego
VMSB-144 arrives at San Diego
VMO-151 arrives at Eastern USA

VMF-213 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-214 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-223 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-224 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-233 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-234 arrives at Pearl Harbor


VMSB-242 arrives at Santa Barbara
VMSB-243 arrives at Santa Barbara
VMSB-244 arrives at San Diego
VP-61 arrives at Alameda
VP-62 arrives at Alameda
VS-6D14 arrives at Alameda
ZP-32 arrives at Alameda
No.118 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada
No.132 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada
No.133 Sqn RCAF arrives at Nelson
No.135 Sqn RCAF arrives at Canada
No.147 Sqn RCAF arrives at Vancouver
9th PS arrives at Spokane
71st OG/17th OS arrives at San Francisco
7th BG/9th BS arrives at San Francisco
7th BG/11th BS arrives at Aden
7th BG/22nd BS arrives at San Francisco
43rd BG/63rd BS arrives at Eastern USA
43rd BG/64th BS arrives at Eastern USA
43rd BG/65th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/69th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/70th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/71st BS arrives at Eastern USA
90th BG/319th BS arrives at Eastern USA
90th BG/320th BS arrives at Eastern USA
90th BG/321st BS arrives at Eastern USA
307th BG/370th BS arrives at Spokane
307th BG/371st BS arrives at Spokane
307th BG/372nd BS arrives at Spokane
308th BG/373rd BS arrives at Boise
308th BG/374th BS arrives at Boise
308th BG/375th BS arrives at Boise
90th BG/400th BS arrives at Eastern USA
43rd BG/403rd BS arrives at Eastern USA
28th CG/404th BS arrives at Eastern USA
38th BG/405th BS arrives at Eastern USA
307th BG/35th RS arrives at Spokane
308th BG/36th RS arrives at Boise
341st BG/490th BS arrives at Aden
341st BG/491st BS arrives at Karachi
301st BG/32nd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/352nd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/353rd BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/419th BS arrives at Mojave
301st BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/358th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/359th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/360th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/427th BS arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/BS (Comp) arrives at Mojave
7th BG/9th BS Det arrives at San Francisco
7th BG/88th RS Det arrives at San Francisco

23rd FG/74th FS arrives at Aden
23rd FG/75th FS arrives at Aden
23rd FG/76th FS arrives at Aden
328th FG/326th FS arrives at San Francisco
328th FG/327th FS arrives at San Francisco
328th FG/329th FS arrives at San Francisco
329th FG/330th FS arrives at San Francisco
329th FG/331st FS arrives at San Francisco
18th FG/333rd FS arrives at Pearl Harbor
55th FG/338th FS arrives at Portland
329th FG/332nd FS arrives at San Francisco
374th TCG/6th TCS arrives at Eastern USA
13th TCS arrives at Eastern USA
22nd TS arrives at Melbourne
42nd TCS arrives at Anchorage
1st FeG/3rd FeS arrives at Aden
1st FeG/6th FeS arrives at Aden
1st FeG/13th FeS arrives at Aden
7th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at San Francisco
307th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Spokane
308th BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Boise
301st BG/Hq Sqn arrives at Mojave
303rd BG/Hq sqn arrives at Mojave
23rd FG/Hq Sqn arrives at Aden
35th PG/Hq Sqn arrives at San Francisco


II USA Armored Corps arrives at San Luis Obispo
II USA Corps arrives at Salt Lake City
2nd Armored Division arrives at Salt Lake City
4th Motorized Division arrives at Salt Lake City
8th Motorized Division arrives at Salt Lake City
36th Infantry Division arrives at Salt Lake City
Provisional Tank Brigade arrives at Mojave
2nd Army Tank Brigade arrives at Canada
Invasion Mobilstn Supply Convoy arrives at Salt Lake City

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am not sure how it works on the Allied side of things, but here is a list of CVE that spawn at San Diego. If this were Japan, they would be destroyed and VP awarded for their destruction.

Not to mention the destruction of all the Plane factories.

What a delicious target.[;)]

Not certain if San Diego is best target for a December 1942 invasion. I would need to give more consideration to the planning first.

The good news is that if you do capture an Allied port which has ships scheduled to arrive, those ships are destroyed (as in scuttled or cancelled) and you receive 50% of their standard VP. Which is one reason why other important ports with far larger than San Diego Allied ship "construction" (=ship arrival dates) need to be considered.

Then again San Diego has all those aircraft factories although again other significant aircraft factory sites also exist. For example capturing Seattle really does cripple the Allied 4E force structure as American 4E production is heavily dependent on onmap, not offmap, factory production. Which would Japan rather face in 1944, 4E or 2E Allied bombers.

Were it not for the effect of the narrow straits, landing directly at Portland or Tacoma has a lot of merit. Partly because you could factor in friendly LBA and use of paratroops as blocking forces.

There is a lot more than the above to take into account before settling on the final destination.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

... EDIT: From the archives: (I put Pearl Harbor in RED Because I have no clue what happends if this base is occupied by JJ ...

From Bullwinkle: tm.asp?m=2620232&mpage=1&key=line%2Cdea ... forcements?
Post #1 (Edited)

.............................................

VMD-1 arrives at San Diego
VMD-2 arrives at San Diego
VMF-123 arrives at San Diego
VMF-124 arrives at San Diego
VMSB-143 arrives at San Diego
VMSB-144 arrives at San Diego
VMO-151 arrives at Eastern USA

VMF-213 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-214 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-223 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMF-224 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-233 arrives at Pearl Harbor
VMSB-234 arrives at Pearl Harbor


...

The Pearl Harbor units should arrive in Eastern USA.

Alfred

[Encircled]

You are going to have to be prepped for it, so he's going to have a very good clue what you are going to do.

Surely you have to land directly on the port itself, because he'll have units ready to react asap if you don't

And its probably way too late to even attempt it......

BBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [:)]

[ny59giants]

Then capture of Portland, Oregon should eliminate many of the 90 plus CVEs the USA produces.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I do believe That will activate all the troops that were intended for the Torch Operation? If so .. and this game continues .. I personally would find a way to get these units into India .. the extra Armor would be devastating IMHO ..

I believe only the Canadian Tank unit is not restricted. Well, the air power is quite daunting...but my understanding is that the squadrons would normally appear anyhow...just not this early.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is a lot more than the above to take into account before settling on the final destination.

Alfred

You are of course quite correct.[:)]

This is merely the first thoughts at planning...brainstorming as it were. The ports or lack thereof north of San Diego aren't helpful for my proposed attack. But there is good defensive terrain (urban and mountains) that will help shield the landings from the nasty Allied armor and San Diego is in clear terrain...

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

First blush at the West Coast planning. I have identified 11 Divisions to attack with. Some are free now; others will be free in a week; others in about two months.

The engineering and aviation support will be a struggle. I have currently 9 AKVs and I was thinking of primarily transporting in all fighter squadrons.

The goal is to sack and burn San Diego and then pretty much leave.

I need to calculate out shipping...I figure it will take almost 100% of Japanese shipping to pull this off. In fact, this is my next task -- to examine my shipping capacity.

I was going to ask why land on those islands, and I still kind of am, because in stock they're Port 1(0)/AF 0(4). That's not awesome. Especially since your goal here isn't to establish air bases and then strat bomb him, but to capture the cities.

On the other hand, they're probably undefended so an AF Bn would do.

I would advocate for only landing at the hex just outside LA. I think that would make him think you're going all-in for LA (and its factories). I think if you land at both hexes between LA and San Diego, you make him take a generalist approach to defending, whereas if you land just outside of LA then he might concentrate the majority of his defenses there.

You might also want to land west of LA as a diversion for this very purpose. Hueneme and Santa Barbara, in stock, do not have static defense units of any heft.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am not sure how it works on the Allied side of things, but here is a list of CVE that spawn at San Diego. If this were Japan, they would be destroyed and VP awarded for their destruction.

Not to mention the destruction of all the Plane factories.

What a delicious target.[;)]

Oh, I hadn't thought about that. Best of luck... and as Alfred says, maybe trying for Portland (ALL those CVEs, TKs, xAKs...) or Seattle. I would actually rate Portland as maybe the single most important arrival point for ships. CVs and first rate combat ships arrive all over, but almost every single CVE for the USN arrives at Portland. If you take it out, then no Jeep Carriers. That would be absolutely devastating to his counterpunches if you do not achieve AV. I can't imagine conducting major amphibious operations in 1944-5 without substantial numbers of CVEs.



That's an extremely scary list of emergency reinforcements. Are any of those divisions White Restricted?

[Olorin]

My 2 cents.

I was planning to bring every available para unit, I don't know if Lowpe plans to do that. Cutting the rail connection around LA is crucial. Paras plus a minor divisional size invasion north of LA can seriously delay Allied countermeassures. If you really want to go nuts, you can also cut the rail connection from the eastern USA. I don't have the map in front of me right now, but I think those islands off the coast of San Diego can be used for long range air drops. It's unlikely that those rear bases are defended by anything more than base forces. Having one or two 'airmobile' light brigades as a follow up might also be worthwhile.

Also... if the invasion is set for late December, it's worthwhile to consider going all in, not just with 11 but with ~20 divisions. Then you can enter LA and defend in heavy urban and mountain terrain, while the bulk of your forces mop up SD. And if your holding operations N and NE of LA have succeeded you might also have time for a coup de main at LA.

It will be very interesting to see how you approach this.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Olorin

My 2 cents.

I was planning to bring every available para unit, I don't know if Lowpe plans to do that. Cutting the rail connection around LA is crucial. Paras plus a minor divisional size invasion north of LA can seriously delay Allied countermeassures. If you really want to go nuts, you can also cut the rail connection from the eastern USA. I don't have the map in front of me right now, but I think those islands off the coast of San Diego can be used for long range air drops. It's unlikely that those rear bases are defended by anything more than base forces. Having one or two 'airmobile' light brigades as a follow up might also be worthwhile.

Also... if the invasion is set for late December, it's worthwhile to consider going all in, not just with 11 but with ~20 divisions. Then you can enter LA and defend in heavy urban and mountain terrain, while the bulk of your forces mop up SD. And if your holding operations N and NE of LA have succeeded you might also have time for a coup de main at LA.

It will be very interesting to see how you approach this.

The trouble with taking the offshore islands first for later paradrops to cut the rail is that the time needed to get a working AF for the transports would clue him in to the need to defend the area. Basically, by the time you're able to cut the rails deeper inland it won't matter much, if at all.

Landing outside of LA should cut the rail to San Diego entirely. I think this is a must-land hex if you're going for San Diego. I think you should also land at Port Hueneme or Santa Barbara to cut the most direct rail line to LA, but there are is the other line that comes from inland instead of the coast. You may not be able to take those hexes, so I don't think you can rely on the idea that LA can be cut off completely from rail.

[Capt. Harlock]

Also... if the invasion is set for late December, it's worthwhile to consider going all in, not just with 11 but with ~20 divisions. Then you can enter LA and defend in heavy urban and mountain terrain, while the bulk of your forces mop up SD. And if your holding operations N and NE of LA have succeeded you might also have time for a coup de main at LA.

It's an impressive idea -- but does Japan have the shipping capacity? It sounds like seven or eight divisions might be lost for not much additional damage.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: witpqs

If you land there, would you ever get to San Diego?

You are alluding to the fact that every restricted unit would rail to San Diego? I am also supposing that the units for the US suddenly appear where ? I have never explored this possiblity?

He will react somehow, and how will partly depend on what is landed. A feint will probably not get him to, say, abandon San Francisco and leave it for the taking. But a big landing will bring a big response and those rail lines will make it easier for him to put things in your way.

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Olorin

My 2 cents.

I was planning to bring every available para unit, I don't know if Lowpe plans to do that. Cutting the rail connection around LA is crucial. Paras plus a minor divisional size invasion north of LA can seriously delay Allied countermeassures. If you really want to go nuts, you can also cut the rail connection from the eastern USA. I don't have the map in front of me right now, but I think those islands off the coast of San Diego can be used for long range air drops. It's unlikely that those rear bases are defended by anything more than base forces. Having one or two 'airmobile' light brigades as a follow up might also be worthwhile.

Also... if the invasion is set for late December, it's worthwhile to consider going all in, not just with 11 but with ~20 divisions. Then you can enter LA and defend in heavy urban and mountain terrain, while the bulk of your forces mop up SD. And if your holding operations N and NE of LA have succeeded you might also have time for a coup de main at LA.

It will be very interesting to see how you approach this.

The trouble with taking the offshore islands first for later paradrops to cut the rail is that the time needed to get a working AF for the transports would clue him in to the need to defend the area. Basically, by the time you're able to cut the rails deeper inland it won't matter much, if at all.

Landing outside of LA should cut the rail to San Diego entirely. I think this is a must-land hex if you're going for San Diego. I think you should also land at Port Hueneme or Santa Barbara to cut the most direct rail line to LA, but there are is the other line that comes from inland instead of the coast. You may not be able to take those hexes, so I don't think you can rely on the idea that LA can be cut off completely from rail.

I was having Emily in mind, not only the transports but the patrol planes as well. No need for an airfield in this case.

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

Also... if the invasion is set for late December, it's worthwhile to consider going all in, not just with 11 but with ~20 divisions. Then you can enter LA and defend in heavy urban and mountain terrain, while the bulk of your forces mop up SD. And if your holding operations N and NE of LA have succeeded you might also have time for a coup de main at LA.

It's an impressive idea -- but does Japan have the shipping capacity? It sounds like seven or eight divisions might be lost for not much additional damage.

I haven't done the math, but my impression is that there are enough ships to do it, if enough xAKs are converted to troop transports.

[Lowpe]

Getting roadblocks on the rail roads is very important, and the reason for taking the islands. They don't have to take the base, although that would be nice, but they do need to stop rail traffic thru the hex.

San Diego can be isolated from getting rail reinforcements.