Headhunter - Lokasenna (A) vs. mind_messing (J) - No MM yet

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well done!! that'll hurt. [8D]

[Lokasenna]

As for his CAP numbers, the CVs he had there were not very big:

Hiyo/Junyo - size 53, default sizing is 19 VF, 19 VB, and 15 VT

Taiyo-class CVE - size 27, default sizing is 18 VF and 9 VT

Hosho-class CVE - size 18, default sizing is 12 VF and 6 VT (I think). Also possible he kept it as size 20 (pre-9/42 upgrade)

Ryuho-class CVL - size 31, default sizing is 21 VF and 9 VT

His numbers were:

VF - maybe 74 on CAP, 38 on strike (some of that could have been LRCAP)
VB - 34
VT - 99

So he probably had up to 4 DBs on search duty (10% search on each VB unit would do that). The VT numbers actually don't add up - his default size would imply about 72 Jills, whereas he had 99. He probably follows the same practice I do, which is to oversize your units such that your CVs are carrying 110% of their maximum load (115% is the cut off for flight ops).

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Awesome! DDs Hatsuharu and Tokitsukaze are going to be cramming an awful lot of survivors onto their decks! Well played![&o]

All I can hear is Homer going, "Woo-hoo!"

[Lokasenna]

Oh yeah, I'm also doing some of this. I made it all the way to Daito Shoto before being spotted [:-]. That area has been somewhat of a shipping nexus around here, I often get submarine attacks on troop/resource/tanker convoys just to the east of it.

I sailed around Iwo Jima and Aogashima, and at one point was within 12 hexes of Chiba/Yokosuka. I sent 3 groups of 2-3 Fletchers. I lost a few, but it was a valuable exercise IMO. I did eventually sink some stuff in late May to the NW of the Marianas, but even more got away. The tally:

Sunk
4 LST
E Kusagaki
2682 reported casualties at sea

Escaped
E Hiyodori
2+ TFs [:(]

[Lokasenna]

Where was I?

Banda Sea - May 15, 1944

Escorting Lexington to Exmouth, which is port 3 at least. Will eventually send her to Perth and then either Colombo or Cape Town, depending on developments. Cape Town is currently repairing a small flock of BBs, CLs, APAs, and soon some CVEs.

KB was at Babeldaob, then came back SW. Note the new aircraft totals - Soryu and Ryujo almost certainly broken off for repairs, and perhaps some others left behind to drop some of that high system damage we saw.

Itsukushima definitely dropped mines at Lautem.

He's been flying paratroopers to Manokwari in an attempt to retake it. Supplies are not great there for me, but I am periodically able to get enough there that I'm comfortable running some search as I'm never in the red, just the yellow. Eventually I'm looking at the bulk of his available paratroops at this point in the war, which is great news for me.

I think this should be the beginning of the end for his Timor adventure. From this point onward I expect to be able to keep the airfields at Dili and Lautem closed almost every day, leaving just Koepang and Roti while I am more able to run supplies to Babar, Saumlaki, and even Lautem (still via sub for the time being).

I have some YMS on the way to clear out those mines on the cheap.

[Lokasenna]

Last one before I head for home and many hours of housework. Laying tile tonight...

Score - May 15, 1944

Allied VPs: +2884
Japanese VPs: +581
Ratio: 1.231:1 against, a change of +.067

He lost 1250 planes, again almost up to an average of 100 per day, while I lost just 510.

On the day of the MKB battle, Japan lost 386 planes to my 150. The single day change in VP margin was +1331 for me - the biggest single day gain of the war so far, for obvious reasons.

[Lowpe]

I am kind of amazed, at this late date, that he would operate his carriers in two different groups.

What Japanese planes are giving you fits, if any? Or is it just the sheer numbers.

I guess using A6M2 with Jills isn't so bad as the cruise speed matches up, but I was surprised to see them in use.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am kind of amazed, at this late date, that he would operate his carriers in two different groups.

What Japanese planes are giving you fits, if any? Or is it just the sheer numbers.

I guess using A6M2 with Jills isn't so bad as the cruise speed matches up, but I was surprised to see them in use.

I don't think I've seen the A6M2 in a while. I think it was the A6M5? I also haven't seen any real penalties from the disparities in cruise speed. I know it can happen, it just doesn't seem to happen a lot.

It's really more the quantity of planes than the quality. The George and Frank can really beat up on my Hellcats, and sometimes Corsairs, but the P-47s are winning for me. But when we're talking several bases all with 100+ planes on day CAP and 20-30 on night CAP, in each theater... it's absurd. It takes the required naval air support through the roof and makes it all but impossible to invade anywhere. So long as KB is around to counter, it's going to be tough going. With no KB, I can just let his LBA fly into my CAP for a few days and then land wherever I please. But there's a KB.

The Ki-100 and Jack seem to counter P-38 sweeps pretty well, so I haven't been using them as much anymore.

Also, CV Taiho took a torpedo shortly before all of this, off Babeldaob. Her planes are now seeming to operate out of Kyushu (Taiho-3 attacked my DDs outside Daito Shoto), so I assume she's currently repairing.

[Sangeli]

Nicely done crushing the Mini-KB!

I'm interested in your CAP settings. Originally I thought there may have been an advantage with setting fighters to either 100% CAP or 100% escort. However, upon some tests against the AI I couldn't see any real advantage in CAP performance compared to the standard 40% CAP levels. How did you decide to use the 100% CAP or escort scheme?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Nicely done crushing the Mini-KB!

I'm interested in your CAP settings. Originally I thought there may have been an advantage with setting fighters to either 100% CAP or 100% escort. However, upon some tests against the AI I couldn't see any real advantage in CAP performance compared to the standard 40% CAP levels. How did you decide to use the 100% CAP or escort scheme?

To make sure that I knew exactly what each unit was doing and leaving nothing to chance. With 40% CAP, range 7 (for example, for USN CVs), I feel less comfortable with being able to manage fatigue and morale on my units. It is also difficult to cycle them. In this case, if I need to stick around for another day of battles, I can adjust my CAP and escort units according to which ones are best suited to remaining on strike escort duty and which can fly CAP (albeit at reduced levels, probably). This calculus can also help me decide if it's even feasible to stick around.

With range 7 (or 8 for IJN) CAP settings, it's also more likely that the units will get worn out trying to defend other hexes, and if their morale/fatigue gets too low they may fail the check(s) to escort the strike (I think these exist?). Obviously, the flip side to this with range 0 is that everything has to be in the same hex or a TF might be left out in the open with its pants down. In my many times of doing this (every invasion in the other game, and this game), this hasn't happened because I am very careful with my TF movement settings. I make sure all TFs can get to the hex at the speed settings being used, or else I divert some CVEs to cover those that lag behind. I use direct/absolute on every TF in every instance. I want them to go exactly where I tell them to go.

IIRC, in this case I left my CAP at 100% or maybe I only dropped it to 90%, as I was escorting Lexington away at only 2-3 hexes per turn.

Using 100% CAP and 100% escort also allows me to pick which pilots are going to get sacrificed escorting the strike in. I don't think I've ever used my elite pilots (avg. 80+) on anything but CAP. So it's also pilot management.

[zuluhour]

Thank you for sharing that. I seldom mention how I handle naval air. I think it depends a lot on how many and
how large the incoming strikes are expected to be. Four strikes by KB in a day I thought would wear out those
100% levels. I have to do some rethinking. (as always in this game). Then there's day 2...but your fatigue levels
here are very manageable for a day 2.....

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Thank you for sharing that. I seldom mention how I handle naval air. I think it depends a lot on how many and
how large the incoming strikes are expected to be. Four strikes by KB in a day I thought would wear out those
100% levels. I have to do some rethinking. (as always in this game). Then there's day 2...but your fatigue levels
here are very manageable for a day 2.....

It depends on the size of the incoming strikes and how many planes get damaged, how long it takes to shoot things down, etc. But I agree - you can run 100% CAP for up to 2 days before you're in the 30s on fatigue. You can run 90% CAP, so long as it's range 0, for at least 3 and maybe 4...

When I land somewhere and need lots of CAP, I set about 50% on the day I expect I might be detected, then 70-80% on all the next day, and I might go to 90% while covering the landings, just to be sure.

I'd rather lose a few dozen planes and pilots, and maybe a dozen to Ops losses, than a single APA, for example.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
To make sure that I knew exactly what each unit was doing and leaving nothing to chance. With 40% CAP, range 7 (for example, for USN CVs), I feel less comfortable with being able to manage fatigue and morale on my units. It is also difficult to cycle them. In this case, if I need to stick around for another day of battles, I can adjust my CAP and escort units according to which ones are best suited to remaining on strike escort duty and which can fly CAP (albeit at reduced levels, probably). This calculus can also help me decide if it's even feasible to stick around.

With range 7 (or 8 for IJN) CAP settings, it's also more likely that the units will get worn out trying to defend other hexes, and if their morale/fatigue gets too low they may fail the check(s) to escort the strike (I think these exist?). Obviously, the flip side to this with range 0 is that everything has to be in the same hex or a TF might be left out in the open with its pants down. In my many times of doing this (every invasion in the other game, and this game), this hasn't happened because I am very careful with my TF movement settings. I make sure all TFs can get to the hex at the speed settings being used, or else I divert some CVEs to cover those that lag behind. I use direct/absolute on every TF in every instance. I want them to go exactly where I tell them to go.

IIRC, in this case I left my CAP at 100% or maybe I only dropped it to 90%, as I was escorting Lexington away at only 2-3 hexes per turn.

Using 100% CAP and 100% escort also allows me to pick which pilots are going to get sacrificed escorting the strike in. I don't think I've ever used my elite pilots (avg. 80+) on anything but CAP. So it's also pilot management.

This reads like something I would write...I can tell you have a very similar thought process to me.

That being said, I'm not sure I agree with everything. First and foremost is the tradeoff between area CAP that can provide protection for nearby TFs and dealing with morale/fatigue issues. To me it seems a 40% CAP fighter unit at range 8 won't really have fatigue/morale issues unless they are also being forced to escort bombers for multiple turns as well. And by using area CAP theoretically you could let the CVTFs react to the Japanese and have more operational freedom, yes? And given that CVTFs seem to react no matter what you do in some circumstances, this seems like a more prudent measure. And as for the pilot argument, I can see it going the other way as well. If you put your bad pilots on 100% escort they are going to be flying far fewer missions than the 100% CAP units and therefore won't gain much over time. So I could see that you would be stuck with one cadre of very very good pilots and another mediocre tier which stays stagnant as they aren't flying many missions.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
To make sure that I knew exactly what each unit was doing and leaving nothing to chance. With 40% CAP, range 7 (for example, for USN CVs), I feel less comfortable with being able to manage fatigue and morale on my units. It is also difficult to cycle them. In this case, if I need to stick around for another day of battles, I can adjust my CAP and escort units according to which ones are best suited to remaining on strike escort duty and which can fly CAP (albeit at reduced levels, probably). This calculus can also help me decide if it's even feasible to stick around.

With range 7 (or 8 for IJN) CAP settings, it's also more likely that the units will get worn out trying to defend other hexes, and if their morale/fatigue gets too low they may fail the check(s) to escort the strike (I think these exist?). Obviously, the flip side to this with range 0 is that everything has to be in the same hex or a TF might be left out in the open with its pants down. In my many times of doing this (every invasion in the other game, and this game), this hasn't happened because I am very careful with my TF movement settings. I make sure all TFs can get to the hex at the speed settings being used, or else I divert some CVEs to cover those that lag behind. I use direct/absolute on every TF in every instance. I want them to go exactly where I tell them to go.

IIRC, in this case I left my CAP at 100% or maybe I only dropped it to 90%, as I was escorting Lexington away at only 2-3 hexes per turn.

Using 100% CAP and 100% escort also allows me to pick which pilots are going to get sacrificed escorting the strike in. I don't think I've ever used my elite pilots (avg. 80+) on anything but CAP. So it's also pilot management.

This reads like something I would write...I can tell you have a very similar thought process to me.

That being said, I'm not sure I agree with everything. First and foremost is the tradeoff between area CAP that can provide protection for nearby TFs and dealing with morale/fatigue issues. To me it seems a 40% CAP fighter unit at range 8 won't really have fatigue/morale issues unless they are also being forced to escort bombers for multiple turns as well. And by using area CAP theoretically you could let the CVTFs react to the Japanese and have more operational freedom, yes? And given that CVTFs seem to react no matter what you do in some circumstances, this seems like a more prudent measure. And as for the pilot argument, I can see it going the other way as well. If you put your bad pilots on 100% escort they are going to be flying far fewer missions than the 100% CAP units and therefore won't gain much over time. So I could see that you would be stuck with one cadre of very very good pilots and another mediocre tier which stays stagnant as they aren't flying many missions.

I think we approach land combat in much the same way, from your previous posts in some other AARs. In any case, a couple of points for response.

CV reaction has been tweaked, but even before I would have (and did) done it this way. CVs now react a maximum of 1 time, as it was always supposed to be. When they did react more, in my case (each of my TFs always has some CAP) they all reacted together.

For the escort units being lower XP, it's not that they're not skilled. I try to use guys who are 60+ at least, if possible. 70+ is better. But a CV that stays alive is a CV that can keep putting out damage. In MMO parlance, dead DPS is no DPS. The same applies to carriers, IMO, so I use my best pilots for CAP and the second-best for escort.

Oh, and obviously while there's no action, I train them all. A month or so of running CAP can turn a 50-55 XP pilot into 60+ easily.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
CV reaction has been tweaked, but even before I would have (and did) done it this way. CVs now react a maximum of 1 time, as it was always supposed to be. When they did react more, in my case (each of my TFs always has some CAP) they all reacted together.

CVs may react together but I've had CVEs not accompany, even if the CV TF was set to follow the CVE TF. But in that case almost assuredly into the KB meaning that the area CAP is probably the last thing you want. I think I may switch to 100% CAP/escort now...

Another question I have is how do you handle providing air cover to fast BB TFs you might break off the Deathstar for bombardment. Do you ever LRCAP them from CVs? If so what settings do you use?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
CV reaction has been tweaked, but even before I would have (and did) done it this way. CVs now react a maximum of 1 time, as it was always supposed to be. When they did react more, in my case (each of my TFs always has some CAP) they all reacted together.

CVs may react together but I've had CVEs not accompany, even if the CV TF was set to follow the CVE TF. But in that case almost assuredly into the KB meaning that the area CAP is probably the last thing you want. I think I may switch to 100% CAP/escort now...

Another question I have is how do you handle providing air cover to fast BB TFs you might break off the Deathstar for bombardment. Do you ever LRCAP them from CVs? If so what settings do you use?

I don't really do this. If I do, it's when I'm already within range - a move in and then out for the bombardment routine, so they'll already be almost as far away as they were before. I rely more on the retirement routine from the bombardment than on LRCAP to protect them. I choose "home port" carefully.

If I do LRCAP, I set no more than 70% in "normal" circumstances - threat is not overly much, and range will not be more than 4-5 once the air phase comes around. I always set drop tanks on the LRCAP groups. In most cases, I LRCAP using LBA rather than carrier based cover. If I LRCAP from carriers, it is almost always from CV/CVL type that can't go to the invasion beach without the 50% penalty, in which case I will usually stand 1-2 hexes off and set 70% LRCAP with some groups. This usually eliminates my ability to strike as all fighters are on defensive duties. I'm OK with this, because in many cases gaining the territory is more important than sinking some ships or bombing some airfields. Not that I am against harvesting VPs from ships and planes when it is possible, but gaining territory so that I can harvest more when my opponent feels that he must defend and the balance has swung too far in my favor is more important to me. An inexorable, implacable advance. A tsunami of steel. I think somebody said that once? Maybe it's the title of a book.


In each of my Allied games I am actually finding the fast BBs to be more useful as heavy surface forces in a separate TF than within the CV TFs themselves. If they are in the same hex, there is still a chance they will soak attacks instead of the more fragile CVs, but the BBs are themselves great weapons. I have a glut of AKEs (converted many) so I can rearm them almost anywhere.

All of this kind of dances around the fact that I use certain routings of sea forces and invasions while avoiding others. Sometimes on this forum I see a sort of squid-like attack on targets such as the Marianas or Marshalls, and I've even done it. When facing possible aerial resistance, I would never perform an advance like that. Everything in one hex on its way in, with roving Fletchers moving ahead if there is a surface threat (they're the only thing I'm willing to risk, as they often require more planes to kill them than they're worth in VPs). Maybe it's not historical or realistic to cram everything into one hex (only 5000 square miles in that hex, after all) - but neither is Japan having 1,000,000 torpedoes.

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One thing to watch if running high levels of anything for multiple days without actions is airframe fatigue. I've aid close attention to this due to playing the Japanese side with decidedly more fragile airframes flying. Even USN units though can take 30-50 points airframe fatigue from flying multiple days set to strike. Then when the encounter happens they go down more easily than one would expect.

Starting any new venture I like to set all to 0 for a few days, then embark for the 5-7 days it may take in a potential combat zone to invade or interdict, then get out.

[Lokasenna]

Banda Sea - May 31, 1944

2 weeks later and we're keeping Dili/Lautem pretty well suppressed. He is basing up to 100-150 planes at Koepang, Roti, and sometimes Waingapoe but I am also able to "reach out and touch" these places at times. My air support west of Darwin could use improvement. VB/VT-16 from Lexington are at Wyndham along with the VB/VT from Intrepid, and there's only 16 Air Support there.

Supplies from subs now working again to Lautem. We lost SST Narwhal to 2 mine hits on May 18. Nautilus and Argonaut eventually hit mines also, and are now repairing (ARD moved to Gove). Several other SS hit mines also. Our YMS sweep for the first time on May 22, and we lose several to Lily dive bombers. They're only 1 point apiece, though. He also starts to bomb the place regularly with Helens from Kendari, but they rarely cause any casualties and our supplies are climbing again. He only attacks once, on May 22, for 3300 IJA casualties to just 60-some Allies. This may have been the last attack he's tried.

Kaimana captured by paratroops on May 18. Will fly in some Seabees and supplies and build it up. This was one of my initial targets. We'll use it in tandem with Biak later to put pressure on Boela/Sorong.

Also flying long range recon to Balikpapan, Ternate, Talaud-Eilanden, Davao, etc.... searching for KB, but also checking out troop/plane numbers. They are usually empty of planes, and none have more than a single division. He really throws everything at the front lines.

[Lokasenna]

Southwest Pacific - May 31, 1944

Oh, hello there. Note that we're also checking up on Tarakan (we captured it via SST a while back and forced him to damage the Oil/Refinery when taking it back, so I wanted accurate production numbers on the place), and Cotabato.

I should've recorded the troop numbers here also. Oops.

[Lokasenna]

New Guinea - May 31, 1944

This is a day after the bombardment fiasco of Biak where our guys were 6 hexes away yet only moved 4 to "bombard" and then decided to retreat, despite what should've been correct settings. I believe Michael is currently working on a tweak/fix for this, as posted in the thread in the main forum.

I still get mad about it when I think about it. That's 200 VPs I have to "pay for" now, and Tennessee is out for at least a year with Boise damaged as well.

There isn't really much to say here, except that I'm continuing the low risk little ship advance. We're actually getting ahead of prep, and since he always has at least a mixed brigade in a place, I need that prep to be as close to 100 as possible. We're going to invade Biak shortly, but then the jump to Sansapor and Sorong will be much more risky because all of the Moluccas are built up a little bit, and the trio of Waigeo/Sorong/Sansapor have AF 4-6 each. We're not concerned about keeping Boela suppressed with current assets and bases to the SW, but it's going to take longer to jump to the tip of New Guinea. It may require actual amphibious ships that are currently back in Hawaii, prepping to do some work in the Marshalls for SLOC purposes.

[Lokasenna]

Burma - May 31, 1944

Rangoon captured from minimal resistance (a division-plus). He's trying to lure me into the swap now, but I'll just bomb his troops to death with B-25s and Wellingtons. Still have to build up Rangoon's port/AF a little bit for the full VP tally on it.

My movement outside Pegu towards his enormous stack outside Moulmein was meant as decoy movement, but I forgot to cancel all moves and several of my units get trashed, costing me a few hundred VPs in LCUs. This is a mistake I could stand not to make in future. It's an easy one to do - I've done it several times in this game and several times in my other game. When my main force moves over from Rangoon, I intend to push east while feinting SW. If I take the Ragaeng complex from him, it's a much slower walk from Tavoy to Bangkok. I've set up CS convoys from Ceylon now, where I have 1.6M supply (and CS set to bring it in from CT), so supply in Burma will soon cease to be an issue.

Outside Chiang Mai, I have just one decent Chinese Corps (~540 AV, ~50 XP/90+ Morale). They're really there as a distraction, and to take Chiang Mai as soon as he leaves it. He does have 2 Tank Divisions heading this way, which is great news for me. I'd much rather they were up here than elsewhere with better terrain. I will have to keep my eyes on Chiang Mai for them, so I can bomb in case they try to rail out.

Check the recon to the SE [:)]. I'm not heading there anytime soon as the timing is crucial - I need them to get to my targets in tandem with some other things happening, in a couple of months. There are units at Hanoi, so I will need to stay more than 1 hex away from there because of the "adjacent units" free recon. I began prepping the units (a few HQ's in the stack) for Saigon, just in case. Supplies are a challenge, obviously, but will get better if/when I get Chiang Mai.

Port Blair will be ours soon, and Little Andaman has a brigade on it with some support troops. We'll have to go back to Ceylon for the African Division to take care of it.