Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr Game over :-)

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Allies planes are pretty much limitless when you get this late.

The carrier bombers are really deep...and almost everything else is pretty darn hefty too.

Have you run into any of the British funnies...the super heavy one bomb planes?

What other late war plane have your run into that was memorable?

Now that is a good question. Without a doubt the P47N brings a quiver of fear everytime it appears on the screen performing a sweep. Aside from that the later models Spitfire are really difficult to shoot down, even when you catch them at a significant disadvantage.

Russian bombers continue to be hopeless except for that flying tank. I think I saw some Soviet bombers which looked like dakotas with some bombs slung underneath. Needless to say, in this threat environment I think they lasted the whole of 2 days before Mike withdrew the survivors.

The A-26B looks pretty cool but like all 2 engine bombers, still quite vulnerable.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: njp72
Russian bombers continue to be hopeless except for that flying tank. I think I saw some Soviet bombers which looked like dakotas with some bombs slung underneath. Needless to say, in this threat environment I think they lasted the whole of 2 days before Mike withdrew the survivors

I'm surprised the Il-2 is any good. Does that armor really protect them from 20mm cannons? Or are they flying so low that intercepting fighters are not an issue? Curious how the Il-2 compares to the A-20.

[paradigmblue]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: njp72
Russian bombers continue to be hopeless except for that flying tank. I think I saw some Soviet bombers which looked like dakotas with some bombs slung underneath. Needless to say, in this threat environment I think they lasted the whole of 2 days before Mike withdrew the survivors

I'm surprised the Il-2 is any good. Does that armor really protect them from 20mm cannons? Or are they flying so low that intercepting fighters are not an issue? Curious how the Il-2 compares to the A-20.

In some of my games, not only did the Il-2s not get shot down in number, but amazingly downed a number of CAP planes on their way to their target.

[Lowpe]

NJP,

Can you envision Japan getting any late war fighter in sufficient numbers to actually make a difference.
Other than the Frank R and Sam? Even Sam comes so late.

Mr. Kane did it to GreyJoy, and Koniu too had a late war plane early. Mr. Kane primarily had Franks and George, but I seem to remember he got the Shinden early.

Koniu had the Ki83 early.

It seems to me more hinges on play styles than anything else.

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: njp72
Russian bombers continue to be hopeless except for that flying tank. I think I saw some Soviet bombers which looked like dakotas with some bombs slung underneath. Needless to say, in this threat environment I think they lasted the whole of 2 days before Mike withdrew the survivors

I'm surprised the Il-2 is any good. Does that armor really protect them from 20mm cannons? Or are they flying so low that intercepting fighters are not an issue? Curious how the Il-2 compares to the A-20.

I find them annoying and hard to bring down and you are correct in identifying altitude settings as a a big factor.

Still when all is said and done, if the escort fighters aren't too bothersome, you have reasonable detection, alt settings roughly right and your airframes have 20mm cannons, both the A-20 and IL-2 will still burn hard if you catch them.[:)]

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

NJP,

Can you envision Japan getting any late war fighter in sufficient numbers to actually make a difference.
Other than the Frank R and Sam? Even Sam comes so late.

Mr. Kane did it to GreyJoy, and Koniu too had a late war plane early. Mr. Kane primarily had Franks and George, but I seem to remember he got the Shinden early.

Koniu had the Ki83 early.

It seems to me more hinges on play styles than anything else.

This Lowpe is again an excellent question. I am hoping this game has in some ways dispelled some of the accepted truths when playing Japan, eg, you can't be competitive in the air without PDU-On (not true), you will run out of supplies if you are too aggressive in 42/43 (not correct India and OZ in this game) and fighting the Russians is lunacy (only partly true [:)])

My view is (and only in my humble opinion) advanced air frames are indeed a waste of time and the opportunity cost of getting them is not worth the price in supplies. Decent Allied players will be in range of Japan by 44 and factories will start to burn. The only thing that has prevented a complete collapse for me has been the sheer numbers of fighter aircraft I can continue to throw up into the skies and the Frank R, George, Tojo, Jack and even the zero can give a reasonable account of themselves in a defensive battle.

I think I have also proven to myself in this game that the Allies don't run out of planes this late in the war, so I think it is better to have reliable/ serviceable air frames that you can mass produce and stockpile than going for something that may give you a slightly higher kill ratio but field in far smaller numbers.

I would tried harder to get the Sam quicker next game but that is it.

It would be a good question to also ask Mike as well.

[Lowpe]

I double checked Mr. Kane GreyJoy and he was field the Ki94 and Shinden in mid Dec 44 or even earlier. I think he had 90 of the Ki94 flying at end game.

There is a morale impact I noticed of the advanced frames coming early, and their presence so early did demoralize GreyJoy and played a role in him deciding to surrender.

So, there is that.

I wonder what would have been the impact on Japan in your game had the Allies pursued a methodical industrial aerial attack. Even a night bombing campaign with 4E...how much would that have hindered his ground advance?

If Japan is left industrially intact then they can be ferocious end game opponents.

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I double checked Mr. Kane GreyJoy and he was field the Ki94 and Shinden in mid Dec 44 or even earlier. I think he had 90 of the Ki94 flying at end game.

There is a morale impact I noticed of the advanced frames coming early, and their presence so early did demoralize GreyJoy and played a role in him deciding to surrender.

So, there is that.

I wonder what would have been the impact on Japan in your game had the Allies pursued a methodical industrial aerial attack. Even a night bombing campaign with 4E...how much would that have hindered his ground advance?

If Japan is left industrially intact then they can be ferocious end game opponents.

Well, according to my sources GJ was demoralized by very agressive use of Ki-84r. But final morale hit he has received at Singapore from 400 mines and 8 inch Coastal Battery (one BB and a few CA/CL sunk, several other damaged).

I did not have chance to really use my toys, he has surrender in less than 30 days from introducing Ki-83 and 15 and less than 15 day after first K-94 Sentai become operational as I remember.

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: njp72

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

NJP,

Can you envision Japan getting any late war fighter in sufficient numbers to actually make a difference.
Other than the Frank R and Sam? Even Sam comes so late.

Mr. Kane did it to GreyJoy, and Koniu too had a late war plane early. Mr. Kane primarily had Franks and George, but I seem to remember he got the Shinden early.

Koniu had the Ki83 early.

It seems to me more hinges on play styles than anything else.

This Lowpe is again an excellent question. I am hoping this game has in some ways dispelled some of the accepted truths when playing Japan, eg, you can't be competitive in the air without PDU-On (not true), you will run out of supplies if you are too aggressive in 42/43 (not correct India and OZ in this game) and fighting the Russians is lunacy (only partly true [:)])

My view is (and only in my humble opinion) advanced air frames are indeed a waste of time and the opportunity cost of getting them is not worth the price in supplies. Decent Allied players will be in range of Japan by 44 and factories will start to burn. The only thing that has prevented a complete collapse for me has been the sheer numbers of fighter aircraft I can continue to throw up into the skies and the Frank R, George, Tojo, Jack and even the zero can give a reasonable account of themselves in a defensive battle.

I think I have also proven to myself in this game that the Allies don't run out of planes this late in the war, so I think it is better to have reliable/ serviceable air frames that you can mass produce and stockpile than going for something that may give you a slightly higher kill ratio but field in far smaller numbers.

I would tried harder to get the Sam quicker next game but that is it.

It would be a good question to also ask Mike as well.

Well I got my toys early by sacrifice. I did not produce more than 100 pieces of A6M2/3 or Ki-43c in '42. All other airframes factories were stop at December 9. All R&D effort went to Ki-84r -> Ki-83 -> Ki-94, A6M8 - > N1K2 -> A7M2. However now I believe that A7M2 and Ki-94 were wast of resources.

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I double checked Mr. Kane GreyJoy and he was field the Ki94 and Shinden in mid Dec 44 or even earlier. I think he had 90 of the Ki94 flying at end game.

There is a morale impact I noticed of the advanced frames coming early, and their presence so early did demoralize GreyJoy and played a role in him deciding to surrender.

So, there is that.

I wonder what would have been the impact on Japan in your game had the Allies pursued a methodical industrial aerial attack. Even a night bombing campaign with 4E...how much would that have hindered his ground advance?

If Japan is left industrially intact then they can be ferocious end game opponents.

Agree, the Allies need to focus on cutting off the oil/fuel for Japan and start attacking industry. As you have succinctly put, an industrially intact Japan will fight you hard right into 45 despite the inferiority of their weapon systems.

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I double checked Mr. Kane GreyJoy and he was field the Ki94 and Shinden in mid Dec 44 or even earlier. I think he had 90 of the Ki94 flying at end game.

There is a morale impact I noticed of the advanced frames coming early, and their presence so early did demoralize GreyJoy and played a role in him deciding to surrender.

So, there is that.

I wonder what would have been the impact on Japan in your game had the Allies pursued a methodical industrial aerial attack. Even a night bombing campaign with 4E...how much would that have hindered his ground advance?

If Japan is left industrially intact then they can be ferocious end game opponents.

Well, according to my sources GJ was demoralized by very agressive use of Ki-84r. But final morale hit he has received at Singapore from 400 mines and 8 inch Coastal Battery (one BB and a few CA/CL sunk, several other damaged).

I did not have chance to really use my toys, he has surrender in less than 30 days from introducing Ki-83 and 15 and less than 15 day after first K-94 Sentai become operational as I remember.

Not surprised to hear that, the FrankR has had a huge impact in my game as well.

When it comes to understanding Japan and playing it strategically and tactically, there is no one better than MrKane[:)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: njp72

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I double checked Mr. Kane GreyJoy and he was field the Ki94 and Shinden in mid Dec 44 or even earlier. I think he had 90 of the Ki94 flying at end game.

There is a morale impact I noticed of the advanced frames coming early, and their presence so early did demoralize GreyJoy and played a role in him deciding to surrender.

So, there is that.

I wonder what would have been the impact on Japan in your game had the Allies pursued a methodical industrial aerial attack. Even a night bombing campaign with 4E...how much would that have hindered his ground advance?

If Japan is left industrially intact then they can be ferocious end game opponents.

Agree, the Allies need to focus on cutting off the oil/fuel for Japan and start attacking industry. As you have succinctly put, an industrially intact Japan will fight you hard right into 45 despite the inferiority of their weapon systems.

In my late game Jocke systematically dismantled the Japanese industry starting in the DEI in mid-44, moving through China and up to the Home Islands. He also made sure to cut off fuel as soon as possible, which was around the turn of 45. He also did target individual aircraft factories, taking out many of the more important or late fighters, including the Ki-83 and J7W. In spite of not being happy with his B-29 losses throughout, he accomplished the goal very effectively.

Previous to that game so many players told me to stockpile HI, but no one mentioned supply. Although I did last until July 45 at that point I was able to only barely set CAP and fly occasional strikes as even on Honshu many bases were low on supply.

I would say supply is paramount to functioning late, as well as keeping oil/fuel flowing as long as possible, but certain fighters can make a huge difference. The Ki-84r is huge, and we know that, because you can make numbers and it can work both offensively and defensively into mid-45. No one is talking about the Ki-84b here, which I'm curious to try this game. Defensively some players like Pax swear by it.

No one has mentioned the N1K5 either. I didn't use it before, but it should be very good defensively.

The Ki-83 allows Japan to have long range offensive capability well into 45. It's incredibly effective, and can stand up to most Allied fighters 1:1. getting a 1:1 result rather than 1:3 is huge as it preserves pilots, kills opposing pilots, and makes for slowed pace if a few sweeps don't clear the path for bombers.

The NF are also crucial as I found out. This game I plan to use several I didn't before, including the Nick Id and the Randy Ic. Here though is where numbers really count.

[njp72]

[/quote]

In my late game Jocke systematically dismantled the Japanese industry starting in the DEI in mid-44, moving through China and up to the Home Islands. He also made sure to cut off fuel as soon as possible, which was around the turn of 45. He also did target individual aircraft factories, taking out many of the more important or late fighters, including the Ki-83 and J7W. In spite of not being happy with his B-29 losses throughout, he accomplished the goal very effectively.

Previous to that game so many players told me to stockpile HI, but no one mentioned supply. Although I did last until July 45 at that point I was able to only barely set CAP and fly occasional strikes as even on Honshu many bases were low on supply.

I would say supply is paramount to functioning late, as well as keeping oil/fuel flowing as long as possible, but certain fighters can make a huge difference. The Ki-84r is huge, and we know that, because you can make numbers and it can work both offensively and defensively into mid-45. No one is talking about the Ki-84b here, which I'm curious to try this game. Defensively some players like Pax swear by it.

No one has mentioned the N1K5 either. I didn't use it before, but it should be very good defensively.

The Ki-83 allows Japan to have long range offensive capability well into 45. It's incredibly effective, and can stand up to most Allied fighters 1:1. getting a 1:1 result rather than 1:3 is huge as it preserves pilots, kills opposing pilots, and makes for slowed pace if a few sweeps don't clear the path for bombers.

The NF are also crucial as I found out. This game I plan to use several I didn't before, including the Nick Id and the Randy Ic. Here though is where numbers really count.
[/quote]

Really good discussion guys and plenty of food for thought.

I think we all note and continue to appreciate the importance of the FrankR (I really love this aircraft).

I only play PDU-off so this obviously makes a big difference with my thoughts on airframes. I have a few small groups running around with the Ki-84b who have done well but I haven't seen any real difference or marked improvement from the R.

In future games I will definitely have a look at some of the other mentioned aircraft but my issue is still going to be cost. All of these aircraft we are discussing use the HA 43 if I am correct, and that means alot of HA 43s when you throw in the Sams as well. [:)]

With current aircraft doing a pretty serviceable job backed by large stockpiles of HA 35s, HA 33s and HA 45s (which we have had years to build up) and we all know supply is going to be an issue, can we really afford a major expansion of HA 43 engines? Possibly with PDU On but I am still not convinced.

Out of interest, is there any solid Japanese AAR where advanced fighter arrived in a timely fashion and made a significant impact in the air war? I am very happy/ keen to review my position especially if they prevented a landing on Japan.

Thanks guys

[Lowpe]

The Frank B's cannons make it look like a great bomber killer...on paper at least.

I think in your game you should have developed the Jack. I know it is only 4 squadrons, but that is 120 quality fighters you can fly with a 1st generation engine and the upgrade path and early arrival makes it a very cost effective plane to get.

Obvert's idea of the final George is interesting too, but the change in engines can be tough.

NJP, even if you made enough engines for the Tony, and produced the Sam would it have changed the outcome much?

In a lot of ways, this game is a great test for how tough Japan can be if the JFB can protect the industry. Unfortunately, there aren't many AFBs that allow that as they all see quite clearly the industrial destruction is the path to victory.

Also, I wanted to mention this was a scen 2 game whereas Obvert v Jocke was Scen 1.

What do both games have in common....the IJN stayed pretty complete to the end game.

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: njp72

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I double checked Mr. Kane GreyJoy and he was field the Ki94 and Shinden in mid Dec 44 or even earlier. I think he had 90 of the Ki94 flying at end game.

There is a morale impact I noticed of the advanced frames coming early, and their presence so early did demoralize GreyJoy and played a role in him deciding to surrender.

So, there is that.

I wonder what would have been the impact on Japan in your game had the Allies pursued a methodical industrial aerial attack. Even a night bombing campaign with 4E...how much would that have hindered his ground advance?

If Japan is left industrially intact then they can be ferocious end game opponents.

Agree, the Allies need to focus on cutting off the oil/fuel for Japan and start attacking industry. As you have succinctly put, an industrially intact Japan will fight you hard right into 45 despite the inferiority of their weapon systems.

In my late game Jocke systematically dismantled the Japanese industry starting in the DEI in mid-44, moving through China and up to the Home Islands. He also made sure to cut off fuel as soon as possible, which was around the turn of 45. He also did target individual aircraft factories, taking out many of the more important or late fighters, including the Ki-83 and J7W. In spite of not being happy with his B-29 losses throughout, he accomplished the goal very effectively.

Previous to that game so many players told me to stockpile HI, but no one mentioned supply. Although I did last until July 45 at that point I was able to only barely set CAP and fly occasional strikes as even on Honshu many bases were low on supply.

I would say supply is paramount to functioning late, as well as keeping oil/fuel flowing as long as possible, but certain fighters can make a huge difference. The Ki-84r is huge, and we know that, because you can make numbers and it can work both offensively and defensively into mid-45. No one is talking about the Ki-84b here, which I'm curious to try this game. Defensively some players like Pax swear by it.

No one has mentioned the N1K5 either. I didn't use it before, but it should be very good defensively.

The Ki-83 allows Japan to have long range offensive capability well into 45. It's incredibly effective, and can stand up to most Allied fighters 1:1. getting a 1:1 result rather than 1:3 is huge as it preserves pilots, kills opposing pilots, and makes for slowed pace if a few sweeps don't clear the path for bombers.

The NF are also crucial as I found out. This game I plan to use several I didn't before, including the Nick Id and the Randy Ic. Here though is where numbers really count.

Usually I am not using Ki-84b simple because I can have Ki-83 around same time, additionally Ki-84b is low-medium altitude fighter, this is not enough from my point of view to be good very late war fighter. Ki-100 can do fine as defensive fighter and it is easy to maintain due to nice SR:1.
Ki-83 is great plane to organize LRCAP traps far behind front lines, either;) The best IJA fighter in game in my opinion.
Well N1K5 looks great too, however I do not see reason to R&D it. N1K2 can do job fine until end and SR:2 is very nice to have in late time war. Ki-84r and Ki-83 are enough for offensive purpose in my opinion. By limit yourself to produce only a few airframes you can save a lot of supplies too.
I have very nice experience with Ki-44c either, even in late '44 or early '45.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: njp72




Agree, the Allies need to focus on cutting off the oil/fuel for Japan and start attacking industry. As you have succinctly put, an industrially intact Japan will fight you hard right into 45 despite the inferiority of their weapon systems.

In my late game Jocke systematically dismantled the Japanese industry starting in the DEI in mid-44, moving through China and up to the Home Islands. He also made sure to cut off fuel as soon as possible, which was around the turn of 45. He also did target individual aircraft factories, taking out many of the more important or late fighters, including the Ki-83 and J7W. In spite of not being happy with his B-29 losses throughout, he accomplished the goal very effectively.

Previous to that game so many players told me to stockpile HI, but no one mentioned supply. Although I did last until July 45 at that point I was able to only barely set CAP and fly occasional strikes as even on Honshu many bases were low on supply.

I would say supply is paramount to functioning late, as well as keeping oil/fuel flowing as long as possible, but certain fighters can make a huge difference. The Ki-84r is huge, and we know that, because you can make numbers and it can work both offensively and defensively into mid-45. No one is talking about the Ki-84b here, which I'm curious to try this game. Defensively some players like Pax swear by it.

No one has mentioned the N1K5 either. I didn't use it before, but it should be very good defensively.

The Ki-83 allows Japan to have long range offensive capability well into 45. It's incredibly effective, and can stand up to most Allied fighters 1:1. getting a 1:1 result rather than 1:3 is huge as it preserves pilots, kills opposing pilots, and makes for slowed pace if a few sweeps don't clear the path for bombers.

The NF are also crucial as I found out. This game I plan to use several I didn't before, including the Nick Id and the Randy Ic. Here though is where numbers really count.

Usually I am not using Ki-84b simple because I can have Ki-83 around same time, additionally Ki-84b is low-medium altitude fighter, this is not enough from my point of view to be good very late war fighter. Ki-100 can do fine as defensive fighter and it is easy to maintain due to nice SR:1.
Ki-83 is great plane to organize LRCAP traps far behind front lines, either;) The best IJA fighter in game in my opinion.
Well N1K5 looks great too, however I do not see reason to R&D it. N1K2 can do job fine until end and SR:2 is very nice to have in late time war. Ki-84r and Ki-83 are enough for offensive purpose in my opinion. By limit yourself to produce only a few airframes you can save a lot of supplies too.
I have very nice experience with Ki-44c either, even in late '44 or early '45.

How do you all use the Ki-44 IIc? I found it dropped off to being almost useless, similar to an Oscar but without the range, by mid-late-44.

The Ki-100 in my game is still only 360mph, or 367mph for the final version. without Symon's air fixes it's decent, but not great at that speed. Sweeps take out a lot once P-47N and P-51D and late Spits get involved. It did well against the USN and Marines though.

The N1K1 is better in my experience to the N1K2 simply because of the extra bit of accurate firepower, but I also build for the service 2, and I try to keep some N1K1 around. Also it has a higher max altitude which gives it a big advantage. The N1K5 seems on paper to be a faster, more powerful version all around, but unfortunately doesn't have the high max altitude. Those two 12.7mm MG with 50 accuracy have to help a lot though.

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: obvert




In my late game Jocke systematically dismantled the Japanese industry starting in the DEI in mid-44, moving through China and up to the Home Islands. He also made sure to cut off fuel as soon as possible, which was around the turn of 45. He also did target individual aircraft factories, taking out many of the more important or late fighters, including the Ki-83 and J7W. In spite of not being happy with his B-29 losses throughout, he accomplished the goal very effectively.

Previous to that game so many players told me to stockpile HI, but no one mentioned supply. Although I did last until July 45 at that point I was able to only barely set CAP and fly occasional strikes as even on Honshu many bases were low on supply.

I would say supply is paramount to functioning late, as well as keeping oil/fuel flowing as long as possible, but certain fighters can make a huge difference. The Ki-84r is huge, and we know that, because you can make numbers and it can work both offensively and defensively into mid-45. No one is talking about the Ki-84b here, which I'm curious to try this game. Defensively some players like Pax swear by it.

No one has mentioned the N1K5 either. I didn't use it before, but it should be very good defensively.

The Ki-83 allows Japan to have long range offensive capability well into 45. It's incredibly effective, and can stand up to most Allied fighters 1:1. getting a 1:1 result rather than 1:3 is huge as it preserves pilots, kills opposing pilots, and makes for slowed pace if a few sweeps don't clear the path for bombers.

The NF are also crucial as I found out. This game I plan to use several I didn't before, including the Nick Id and the Randy Ic. Here though is where numbers really count.

Usually I am not using Ki-84b simple because I can have Ki-83 around same time, additionally Ki-84b is low-medium altitude fighter, this is not enough from my point of view to be good very late war fighter. Ki-100 can do fine as defensive fighter and it is easy to maintain due to nice SR:1.
Ki-83 is great plane to organize LRCAP traps far behind front lines, either;) The best IJA fighter in game in my opinion.
Well N1K5 looks great too, however I do not see reason to R&D it. N1K2 can do job fine until end and SR:2 is very nice to have in late time war. Ki-84r and Ki-83 are enough for offensive purpose in my opinion. By limit yourself to produce only a few airframes you can save a lot of supplies too.
I have very nice experience with Ki-44c either, even in late '44 or early '45.

How do you all use the Ki-44 IIc? I found it dropped off to being almost useless, similar to an Oscar but without the range, by mid-late-44.

The Ki-100 in my game is still only 360mph, or 367mph for the final version. without Symon's air fixes it's decent, but not great at that speed. Sweeps take out a lot once P-47N and P-51D and late Spits get involved. It did well against the USN and Marines though.

The N1K1 is better in my experience to the N1K2 simply because of the extra bit of accurate firepower, but I also build for the service 2, and I try to keep some N1K1 around. Also it has a higher max altitude which gives it a big advantage. The N1K5 seems on paper to be a faster, more powerful version all around, but unfortunately doesn't have the high max altitude. Those two 12.7mm MG with 50 accuracy have to help a lot though.

Well, my game with GJ was without Symon's air fixes except 2 months in mid '44. So all I am saying it is about my experience with stock airframes. However I did not meet P-51D or P-47N in air yet, GJ surrendered game before end of January 1945 ;(. What I know, base on reading your ARR I am using little different air doctrine.
Sorry njp72, it seems I am using a lot of yours space here. So I will stop here

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The Frank B's cannons make it look like a great bomber killer...on paper at least.

I think in your game you should have developed the Jack. I know it is only 4 squadrons, but that is 120 quality fighters you can fly with a 1st generation engine and the upgrade path and early arrival makes it a very cost effective plane to get.

Obvert's idea of the final George is interesting too, but the change in engines can be tough.

NJP, even if you made enough engines for the Tony, and produced the Sam would it have changed the outcome much?

In a lot of ways, this game is a great test for how tough Japan can be if the JFB can protect the industry. Unfortunately, there aren't many AFBs that allow that as they all see quite clearly the industrial destruction is the path to victory.

Also, I wanted to mention this was a scen 2 game whereas Obvert v Jocke was Scen 1.

What do both games have in common....the IJN stayed pretty complete to the end game.

Good points here Lowpe.

Correct it would not have mattered with regards to the Tony and Sam. It is depressing how the Allies have been able to absorb the air losses (especially 4es) and keep pressing on.

Mike has been clever with the sweeps and with captured airbases in close range now, there is no escape.

Yep Sce 2 game which I think helps alot, especially in the first year with the extra divisions.

Preserving the IJN into 44 has made a big difference especially from the perspective of enjoying the game. Having tools you can strike back with in 45 rather than being a punching bag has been fun.

[njp72]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: MrKane




Usually I am not using Ki-84b simple because I can have Ki-83 around same time, additionally Ki-84b is low-medium altitude fighter, this is not enough from my point of view to be good very late war fighter. Ki-100 can do fine as defensive fighter and it is easy to maintain due to nice SR:1.
Ki-83 is great plane to organize LRCAP traps far behind front lines, either;) The best IJA fighter in game in my opinion.
Well N1K5 looks great too, however I do not see reason to R&D it. N1K2 can do job fine until end and SR:2 is very nice to have in late time war. Ki-84r and Ki-83 are enough for offensive purpose in my opinion. By limit yourself to produce only a few airframes you can save a lot of supplies too.
I have very nice experience with Ki-44c either, even in late '44 or early '45.

How do you all use the Ki-44 IIc? I found it dropped off to being almost useless, similar to an Oscar but without the range, by mid-late-44.

The Ki-100 in my game is still only 360mph, or 367mph for the final version. without Symon's air fixes it's decent, but not great at that speed. Sweeps take out a lot once P-47N and P-51D and late Spits get involved. It did well against the USN and Marines though.

The N1K1 is better in my experience to the N1K2 simply because of the extra bit of accurate firepower, but I also build for the service 2, and I try to keep some N1K1 around. Also it has a higher max altitude which gives it a big advantage. The N1K5 seems on paper to be a faster, more powerful version all around, but unfortunately doesn't have the high max altitude. Those two 12.7mm MG with 50 accuracy have to help a lot though.

Well, my game with GJ was without Symon's air fixes except 2 months in mid '44. So all I am saying it is about my experience with stock airframes. However I did not meet P-51D or P-47N in air yet, GJ surrendered game before end of January 1945 ;(. What I know, base on reading your ARR I am using little different air doctrine.
Sorry njp72, it seems I am using a lot of yours space here. So I will stop here

Not at all Mr Kane, you are welcome anytime here. Please feel free to continue to add to this conversation which I am finding very valuable.[:)]

[njp72]

late Aug 45

Well I think I will stumble into September still in some shape or form.

The Allies still need 25K VPs to win and the scoreboard is still indicating only a minor victory for the Allies. As I have stated before, there is nothing too minor about being hit by 1000 bombers with no air cover over certain clear hexes. [X(]

In fact this picture sums it up pretty well