Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Dysta]

I saw the DB3000 that Chinese maritime authorities' ships are named [Zhong Guo Haijian] and [Zhong Guo Haijing]. I must say they are both confusing and easily mixed up with Haijian/Haijing part. So why not use the English name?

There are three separated maritime authorities in China, and they have official English names as well as the unique emblems and racing stripes to identify:

[Zhong Guo Haijian] -> CMS (China Marine Surveillance), under State Oceanic Administration, 4 thin blue stripes only:



[Zhong Guo Haijing] -> CCG (China Coast Guard), under State Oceanic Administration, one thin blue, one thick red and three thin blue stripes in orders:



and China MSA itself (China Maritime Safety Administration ,CMSA), one thick red adjacent with thin blue, then other 3 thin blue stripes in orders:

Yes, CMSA is also have armed ships, like this catamaran. But usually CMSA have only small tonnage ships and speedboats, and for close shoreline patrol.

[mikmykWS]

If you could point out which ships are wrong it would be helpful. Text changes are not a big deal.

Thanks!

Mike

[hellfish6]

ORIGINAL: FTBSS

Mike can we add a hypothetical unit in as Ev-22 Osprey To give US mini carriers (LHA,LHD) some AeW capability?

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/why-the- ... the-ev-22/

I make that variant myself - I dubbed it the EV-22E Electric Osprey - by adding a Searchwater AEW radar to the MV-22 and saving it as a delta file. Same with a standoff jammer variant of the Osprey (the EV-22F Fuzzy Osprey). Two each per LHD, and for a little flair their squadron callsigns come from USMC VMAQ squadrons.

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

If you could point out which ships are wrong it would be helpful. Text changes are not a big deal.

Thanks!

Mike

I just come back from a nap, here.

CMS:
#2967 - Type 918 Wolei [Haijian 112] -> Type 918 Wolei [China Marine Surveillance 112]
#2969 - Type xxx [Zhong Guo Haijian 83] -> Type xxx [China Marine Surveillance 83]
(2005-2013)

CCG:
#3049 - Type xxx [Zhong Guo Haijing 2901] -> Type xxx [China Coast Guard 2901]
#3050 - Type 818 [CCG 46301] -> Type 818 [China Coast Guard 46301]
#2970 - Type 072 Yukan [Tow 25] -> Type 072 Yukan [China Coast Guard - Tow 25] (Including Chinese word)
#2968 - Type 053H2G Jiangwei [CGPS 31239] -> Type 053H2G Jiangwei [China Coast Guard 31239]

New requests for CMS:

#new - Type xxx [China Marine Surveillance 7008]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/blog-page_24.html
A 2000t-class cutter with a helipad. Most typical ship for CMS.

and some new requests for CCG:

#new - Type 618B [China Coast Guard 44015]
http://blog.qq.com/qzone/709434252/1341502270.htm
http://img1.gtimg.com/news/pics/hv1/238 ... 544738.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Tw6KGk9.jpg
500t-class nimble patroller and armed with a front 14.5mm duet MG turret. It was the oldest workhorse and built quite a lot, but poor seaworthiness.

#new - Type 053H Jianghu I [China Coast Guard 1002/44102, ex-PLAN] (2007-2016)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_053_ ... oast_Guard
http://img1.gtimg.com/gd/pics/hv1/90/15 ... 967510.jpg
The oldest CCG ships retooled from 2 053H frigates, downgraded armament (1x 37mm front, 2x 14.5mm duet-HMG each side). All decommissioned at 2016.

#new - Type xxx [China Coast Guard 1118, Ex-CMS]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/blog-page_29.html
A 1000t class cutter, unarmed and with boat-towing arms. All 6 ships are Ex-CMS.

#new - Type 718 Pudong [China Coast Guard 1001/31101]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haixun-class_cutter
http://blog.qq.com/qzone/709434252/1341502270.htm (The first ship named Pudong, while Haixun was based on Haixun-21 from CMAS, which is a whole different ship)
http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/midd ... 374353.jpg
Two coastal patrol ships renamed to CCG, has vintage but substantial armament (1x 37mm front, 2x 14.5mm duet-HMG each side) and a helipad.

#new - Type xxx [China Coast Guard 3383, Ex-CMS]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/shucha- ... -3276.html
Based on CMS 83 (#2969).

#new - Type xxx [China Coast Guard 1301]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/zhaoyu-wps.html
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy5XZpLUkAACpQx.jpg
The CCG's 3000t-class workhorse, have over 10 ships, all armed with 30mm turret, and have a helipad with hanger.

#new - Type xxx [China Coast Guard 2305]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/shucha-ii-wps.html
A seaworthy 3000t-class cutter, have a hanger but unarmed and no towing crane.

#new - Type xxx [China Coast Guard 1401]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/zhaolai ... s-328.html
http://api.theweek.com/sites/default/fi ... TS8X3M.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cyj4adCUkAAP0Va.jpg
http://hkpic.crntt.com/upload/201403/30/103100959.jpg
Another newer design of 4000t-class cutter, no hanger, but have a stern towing reel, and a mount for install a 76mm gun if needed.

#new - Type xxx [China Coast Guard 2501, Ex-CMS]
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/shuoshi-ii-wps.html
http://pic3.dwnews.net/20160317/45b3848 ... a5c0_w.jpg
A 5000t-class cutter, like 4000t-class CCG 2305, but have a stern port for one boat.

#new - Type 718B [China Coast Guard 46111]
http://www.janes.com/article/65089/chin ... uard-ships
A corvette-sized cutter armed with a 76mm gun, entirely different from the older Type 718.

#new - Type 056 [China Coast Guard 33103]
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... vette.html
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TFIHqMFD7-k/ ... fecpzu.jpg
A downgraded and less stealthy version for CCG, one 30mm turret at fore. Still no proper type code yet.

There is a long list of non-Navy CMS and CCG, but the expansion and conversion are so quick to follow to date, so I only provide some info with rather usually seen ships. Kudos to the blogger who wrote this:
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/cms-test.html
http://oplanchina.blogspot.hk/p/blog-page_77.html

As for CMSA, there are lots of boats that below 1000t and aren't too worthy to put effort to DB3000. Some larger ships are also either converted to CCG, or lacks of info about the hull design. I need time to tidy up the CMSA list first.

[mikmykWS]

Much appreciated. Thank you!

Mike

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Much appreciated. Thank you!

Mike

You're welcome, keep in mind I am still editing it until the end of Sunday.

[Kynth]

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

ORIGINAL: FTBSS

Mike can we add a hypothetical unit in as Ev-22 Osprey To give US mini carriers (LHA,LHD) some AeW capability?

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/why-the- ... the-ev-22/

I make that variant myself - I dubbed it the EV-22E Electric Osprey - by adding a Searchwater AEW radar to the MV-22 and saving it as a delta file. Same with a standoff jammer variant of the Osprey (the EV-22F Fuzzy Osprey). Two each per LHD, and for a little flair their squadron callsigns come from USMC VMAQ squadrons.

If you would like real-world, the UK was hosting the USMC aboard HMS Ocean in the Gulf in January. Performing operations supported by the ASaC.7 Sea King:



Note the side mounted Searchwater sensor.

Functions of ASaC.7 include AEW, mini-JSTARS (check out the Orange Crop ESM...), ground surveillance. Easily comparable in function (if not performance) to Hawkeye. Used extensibly as a mini-AWACS and mini-JSTARS in Iraq. Being a helicopter based platform it has a few USP's over Hawkeye. Operation from an LHD and station keeping being two.

ASaC.7 is to be replaced by Merlin HM.2 in the real world with the Crowsnest Ro-Ro kit (currently represented in CMANO as a separate unit instead of a loadout) from 2018.

If you do want a Hypothetical V-22 AEW, there were concepts with overwing radomes a la Hawkeye, however the closest that has come to fruition was the V-22 TOSS, an Osprey version of Merlin MASC (which became Crowsnest).



This was effectively the same Crowsnest kit (palletised Cerberus workstations, Searchwater) that Merlin received but with a ramp mounted pallet for the sensor. It's still considered a future possibility as the Crowsnest kit is truly Ro-Ro.

[AlGrant]

Whilst looking at some Indian Ocean scenarios I found that the Myanmar Navy has some fairly recent, but significant units missing from the DB.
Some of the missing units are Chinese imports and therefore easily added, however Myanmar has produced an number of indigenous missile armed frigate & corvette units.
Many of these are well armed and include stealth features.



I've included some links but still looking for further info.
Note: The Shipbucket links- Not sure on the source of this guys info but he seems to have done his homework and line drawings included.
His list of sensors/weapons etc seem to match other sources I've found scattered around


Myanmar (Burmese) Navy indigenous units:

Frigates:
Kyan Sittha Class - Currently 2 (F12 - Kyansittha & F14 - Sinbyushin )
8 x C-802 anti-ship missiles
1× Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Cannons
3 x NG-18 6-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns
6 x turret-mounted Igla SAM
ASW torpedoes
Rocket Launchers, possibly ASW rockets or decoy rockets

http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=ums-kyan-sittha-f12-frigate-myanmar
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/sin-phyu-shin-newest-burmese-built.html
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5475&start=40#p129640
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5475&start=40#p129640

Aung Zeya Class - Currenly 1 (F11 - Aung Zeya, F13 'in build' ?)
8 x Kh-35E anti-ship missiles
1× Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Cannons
4 x AK-630 6-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns
6 × SA-N-5 SAM
Triple 324 mm YU-7 ASW torpedoes
Rocket Launchers, possibly ASW rockets or decoy rockets
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/myanmar/ums-aung-zeya.htm
https://defence.pk/threads/new-stealth- ... vy.307055/[/link]
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5475&start=30

Corvette (Missile)
Anawratha Class Currently 3 (771 - UMS Anawratha, 772 - UMS Bayinnaung, 773 - UMS Tabinshwehti)
*773 having 'stealth' modifications superstructure.
4 × C-802 Surface-to-Surface Missile
1 × Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Cannons
1 × Type 69/AK-230 twin-barrel 30 mm CIWS gun
2 × Type 58/ZPU 2 Anti-aircraft Gun
6 × SA-N-5 SAM
2 × RBU-1200 or Type 81 ASW rocket launchers
1 helipad
http://www.janes.com/article/66579/myanmar-navy-commissions-first-corvette-with-reduced-rcs
http://www.defencebd.com/2014/11/myanmar-navy-launches-stealth-corvette.html


Fast Attack Craft (Missile)
'Stealth Corvette' (class name unknown - 49 meter FAC-M ??). Currently 2 ( 491 & 492 .... 10 planned )
4 x C-802A anti-ship missile
1 × AK-630 six-barrel 30 mm CIWS gun
4 × SA-N-5 SAM
http://www.defencebd.com/2014/05/myanmarr-navy-fac-491-492.html

'5 Series' - Currently 10 (more under construction - est total of 20)
3 Batches - Batch I = Gun Batch II = Missile (802) Batch III (802A)
Hull numbers - 556 - 560
4 × C-802 Surface-to-Surface Missile
2 × 30 mm AK 230
2 × Type 69 14.5 mm twin Anti-Aircraft Guns
6 × SA-N-5 SAM


Hull Numbers - 561 - 570
2 x C-802A Surface to Surface Anti-ship Missile
2 × 30 mm AK 230
2 × Type 69 14.5 mm twin Anti-Aircraft Guns
6 × SA-N-5 SAM
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5475&start=20#p127244


Fast 'Stealth' Torpedo Boat
'Stealth' Torpedo Boat - T201
8 x Torpedo (chinese or russian?)
http://defense-studies.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/myanmar-inducts-first-of-new-torpedo.html
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/burma-navys-very-first-torpedo-boat-t201.html


Apart from their own indigenous shipbuilding program & adding Chinese ASM's to just about anything that floats, Myanmar has been seeking (or at least talking about) purchasing submarines, but as far as I know there isn't anything currently in the pipeline.

Not only do they have the weapons available they've been practising using them (OTHT ASM)

http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/light-frigate-anawyahtar-771-test-fired.html
http://hlaoo1980.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/burma-navys-combined-fleet-exercise-sea.html

Given the weapons and the geographic region (China's 'string of pearls') I think these are worth adding at some point (of course I'd say that as I'm building a scenario that can use them [;)] )

[orca]

Maybe just add the Searchwater 2000 AEW radar as a loadout (roll on roll off) to the existing hypothetical SV-22?

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

ORIGINAL: FTBSS

Mike can we add a hypothetical unit in as Ev-22 Osprey To give US mini carriers (LHA,LHD) some AeW capability?

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/why-the- ... the-ev-22/

I make that variant myself - I dubbed it the EV-22E Electric Osprey - by adding a Searchwater AEW radar to the MV-22 and saving it as a delta file. Same with a standoff jammer variant of the Osprey (the EV-22F Fuzzy Osprey). Two each per LHD, and for a little flair their squadron callsigns come from USMC VMAQ squadrons.

[KLAB]

Interesting stuff but I very much doubt its the SA-N-5?

The text of the links refers to the "SA-N-5 Igla" which in itself is contradictory as the SA-N-5 GRAIL is the naval derivative of the Strela 2/2M etc.
Its very unlikely the SA-N-5 is used on these new Myanmar boats as its pretty much an antique.

SA-N-5 is the navalised SA-7 Grail which in Russian / Soviet references is the Strela 2, Strela 2M etc, then the later SA-N-8 Gremlin (Strela 3) NATO SA-14 Gremlin.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_r ... ation.html

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_r ... tures.html

http://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_r ... tures.html

Myanmar is listed as one of the users of the SA-18 Igla so that would make more sense for arming its "new" warships (SA-N-10 Gimlet).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla

That said the armament of these ships appears almost exclusively Chinese which means the HN-5 etc Chinese SA-7 copy is possible (but still unlikely due to obsolescence) and the Chinese have a variety of modern similar sized MANPADS in the form of the far more effective QW-1/2, FN-6 etc.

It just seems more likely that whatever these new boats are armed with it isn't the SA-N-5.[:)]

Or even North Korean copies (cheers Mike) [;)]http://spioenkop.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03 ... syria.html

Regards

K

[mikmykWS]

Could be the DPRK version of the SA-16 as well. They've been appearing in Syria the last couple years.

Mike

[AlGrant]

I understand where you are coming from ..... but the trick is to find a reliable reference!

This article on Janes (Dec 2016) http://www.janes.com/article/66579/myanmar-navy-commissions-first-corvette-with-reduced-rcs
Says "two Chinese-made NG-18 gun systems for close-in defence. The ship also features a box launcher for six man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) - presumably from North Korea."
But doesn't list the type.

The only references I can find that lists anything other than SA-N-5 says that that F12 is to be fitted with Chinese the naval Surf-Air version of the TY-90 http://research.omicsgroup.org/index.php/TY-90

Or a 2013 blog post that mentions FM-90N SAM for 3 frigates .... but it doesn't list a source.

Actually just as I'm about to post:
This link mentions Igla http://www.militaryfactory.com/ships/detail.asp?ship_id=ums-kyan-sittha-f12-frigate-myanmar for F12.

...... If anybody has any reliable link/references it would be really useful.

[hellfish6]

Sure. Whichever Osprey works best for you. The 'Maritime Surveillance' version of the 2018 SV-22D would only need to have the surface search radar and 7.62mm machineguns removed and an AEW radar (Searchwater or Crowsnest AESA) to make it a viable AEW platform.

ORIGINAL: orca

Maybe just add the Searchwater 2000 AEW radar as a loadout (roll on roll off) to the existing hypothetical SV-22?

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

ORIGINAL: FTBSS

Mike can we add a hypothetical unit in as Ev-22 Osprey To give US mini carriers (LHA,LHD) some AeW capability?

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/why-the- ... the-ev-22/

I make that variant myself - I dubbed it the EV-22E Electric Osprey - by adding a Searchwater AEW radar to the MV-22 and saving it as a delta file. Same with a standoff jammer variant of the Osprey (the EV-22F Fuzzy Osprey). Two each per LHD, and for a little flair their squadron callsigns come from USMC VMAQ squadrons.

[butch4343]

Hi

I was wondering if I might be able to stick in a request for a load out addition. I am working on an airfield bashing scenario for ODS in 1991. I have read from several sources that the first nights of the war that B52s went in low over Iraqi Airfields with both CBU load outs and interestingly British 1000lb Bombs, referred to UK-1000 bombs. The reason that I can find for this is that US bombs didn’t have the required penetration characteristics to create sufficient concrete heave in airfield operating surfaces.

Now I have considered using the next nearest load out which would be M-117 750lb weapons, however these require a higher release than the 300ft mentioned in sources.

So I would like to request an additional load out for the B52G:

#2263 - B-52G Stratofortress -- United States (Air Force), 1991-1994, Harpoon Mod
The load out would be 36 Mk18 Retarded Bombs either of the below would fit nicely

#1000455 - Mk18 1000lb RET -- RAF, Retarded

#1399 - Mk18 1000lb RET -- RAF, Retarded

I would suggest that the load out range/ ready time parameters for the load would be

M117 750lb LDGP, HSAB Pylon, Hi-Lo-Hi
ID6998

My reasoning for this is the M117 is 2.16m long with the Mk18 is 2.48m long by comparison, the Mk.18 is only slightly larger in diameter and 0.42 vs. 0.41m for the M117 so parasitic drag gain would be negligible, the weights are different 340kg vs. 505kg for the 1000lb weapon, however there are nine fewer bombs so there is only a weight gain of 3060kg not enough to significantly affect the range.

Sources:

M117 details came from the CMANO database viewer.

1000lb MC Bomb RAF Data : Page 79

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles ... 7857da.pdf

B52 Employment Night 1 of Desert Storm

http://photorecon.net/b-52-strike-on-ir ... s-article/
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation ... storm.html
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z5N ... 52&f=false

Cheers guys

Loadout added

[inanetunaman]

can i request that you add an air to air laser, the current lasers in the game have WAY too much ammo for planes, and their range makes the aim-9 sidewinder pointless as they have the same max range and the laser fires first as it does not need to travel and have a practical range,
also, the coil lasers can't be fired within 1nm of the plane, meaning it is not a good gun replacement for near future scenarios

i would say to have a 0 - 5 NM range, but i am not really sure how far you could expect to hit something by turning a aircraft and still hit an evading target
---------------------------

while i am here, i remembered a while back Iran calmed to have a "suicide drone" and i think it would be interesting to have, it could be used like a SSM, but it can identify its target first
but i don't have any more info about it, nor do i know if it even existed

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: inanetunaman

can i request that you add an air to air laser, the current lasers in the game have WAY too much ammo for planes, and their range makes the aim-9 sidewinder pointless as they have the same max range and the laser fires first as it does not need to travel and have a practical range,
also, the coil lasers can't be fired within 1nm of the plane, meaning it is not a good gun replacement for near future scenarios

i would say to have a 0 - 5 NM range, but i am not really sure how far you could expect to hit something by turning a aircraft and still hit an evading target
---------------------------

while i am here, i remembered a while back Iran calmed to have a "suicide drone" and i think it would be interesting to have, it could be used like a SSM, but it can identify its target first
but i don't have any more info about it, nor do i know if it even existed

Israel has had "suicide drones" for decades:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Harpy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Harop

[inanetunaman]

they also have the delilah missile, but they can't return to base if they don't have a target or find their target is not the one they wanted

also, Iran is more likely to be the opponent in this... .... and i highly doubt Israel would willingly give them weapons

[AlGrant]

Israel has had "suicide drones" for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Harpy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Harop

Harop and Harpy are already in the DB, but the current implementation in the game means they Can't loiter over a target area (like the Harop) when used for SEAD missions nor will they return home.

However they do make for an interesting option if used as a 'drone swarm' to saturate enemy air defences just ahead of a bigger hit.

[Hongjian]

MMW-radar equipped Z-19 finally in service.

We have seen prototypes before, but this one has an "LHXXXX" tailnumber, which indicates it is in active service with an army aviation regiment.

[Kynth]

Further to FTBSS and hellfish6's request for a Hypothetical AEW V-22, NAVAIR released the following slide in 2014 of additional roles for the Osprey. COD (CMV-22B) and VARS (MV-22B) we know are now in production and/or testing.

Note the ISR / C2 role features the MASC/TOSS equipment (Merlin CROWSNEST workstations and sensors).

EDIT: Also note on the V-22 TOSS model at the bottom of the quote the EO chin turret necessary for ISR functions.

ORIGINAL: Kynth

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

ORIGINAL: FTBSS

Mike can we add a hypothetical unit in as Ev-22 Osprey To give US mini carriers (LHA,LHD) some AeW capability?

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/why-the- ... the-ev-22/

I make that variant myself - I dubbed it the EV-22E Electric Osprey - by adding a Searchwater AEW radar to the MV-22 and saving it as a delta file. Same with a standoff jammer variant of the Osprey (the EV-22F Fuzzy Osprey). Two each per LHD, and for a little flair their squadron callsigns come from USMC VMAQ squadrons.

If you would like real-world, the UK was hosting the USMC aboard HMS Ocean in the Gulf in January. Performing operations supported by the ASaC.7 Sea King:



Note the side mounted Searchwater sensor.

Functions of ASaC.7 include AEW, mini-JSTARS (check out the Orange Crop ESM...), ground surveillance. Easily comparable in function (if not performance) to Hawkeye. Used extensibly as a mini-AWACS and mini-JSTARS in Iraq. Being a helicopter based platform it has a few USP's over Hawkeye. Operation from an LHD and station keeping being two.

ASaC.7 is to be replaced by Merlin HM.2 in the real world with the Crowsnest Ro-Ro kit (currently represented in CMANO as a separate unit instead of a loadout) from 2018.

If you do want a Hypothetical V-22 AEW, there were concepts with overwing radomes a la Hawkeye, however the closest that has come to fruition was the V-22 TOSS, an Osprey version of Merlin MASC (which became Crowsnest).



This was effectively the same Crowsnest kit (palletised Cerberus workstations, Searchwater) that Merlin received but with a ramp mounted pallet for the sensor. It's still considered a future possibility as the Crowsnest kit is truly Ro-Ro.

Added