Wow, just wow...ORIGINAL: jwolf
Just 3 days later and that US sub would have had better torpedoes. Well timed! [;)]
And congratulations to LST on the nice carrier victory for Japan! Always good to have those in later 43 and beyond
IdahoNYer vs LST (J AAR): GAME OVER!
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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GetAssista
- Posts: 2836
- Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:13 am
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
And congratulations to LST on the nice carrier victory for Japan! Always good to have those in later 43 and beyond
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
I hope he is now happy that this is the redo and the results are slightly better for him, but still bad, proving the first results weren't a fluke.
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LargeSlowTarget
- Posts: 5051
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Redo results accepted, as even with corrected orders the results were apparently meant to be.
Ed did not really expect radically different results from the redo, just wanted "clean" orders to remove any doubts and hoped for a miracle.
So, the game is back on track.
I have revised my initial decision and will not pursue the action with my carriers - I have only about 40 operational bombers left on my 11 flattops, against 3-4 operational carriers - too few to matter. I will retire at full speed to Singers to replenish airframes and torpedoes, and will then rush out again, hoping to catch the cripples before they arrive at safety - I think they will retire to Colombo, since hat is the biggest port in the area and has a repair yard.
I have withdrawn a number of land-based DB and TB squadrons in order to free trained pilots and airframes to rebuild the CAGs. Netties and Lily-DBs will try their luck while the carriers are away. Hope I can sink at least one of the enemy carriers, otherwise they will soon be back. Fingers crossed. The other ray of hope - Frank will start production next turn.
Turn sent to Ed - stay tuned.
Ed did not really expect radically different results from the redo, just wanted "clean" orders to remove any doubts and hoped for a miracle.
So, the game is back on track.
I have revised my initial decision and will not pursue the action with my carriers - I have only about 40 operational bombers left on my 11 flattops, against 3-4 operational carriers - too few to matter. I will retire at full speed to Singers to replenish airframes and torpedoes, and will then rush out again, hoping to catch the cripples before they arrive at safety - I think they will retire to Colombo, since hat is the biggest port in the area and has a repair yard.
I have withdrawn a number of land-based DB and TB squadrons in order to free trained pilots and airframes to rebuild the CAGs. Netties and Lily-DBs will try their luck while the carriers are away. Hope I can sink at least one of the enemy carriers, otherwise they will soon be back. Fingers crossed. The other ray of hope - Frank will start production next turn.
Turn sent to Ed - stay tuned.
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
You really think you can catch them before they arrive at Colombo? (Supposing that is where they will go, as you said is most likely.)
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adarbrauner
- Posts: 1531
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RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Actually the results are sensibly inferior than those of the first turn. Idaho can be fond of himself. Or maybe not, because it's not the different altitude of the recon squadron which made the difference, but anyhow, not the end of the world.
You're not in an easy situation.
Trinkat is taken, and main US Carriers Fleet still operational.
You still have Nagato an Hyuga, + a bunch of destroyers with torps at least (all the Cruisers are out of ammo, right?). I'd keep the Carriers, or part of them, on air cover duty and send the BBs on the wake of the "cripples"...
We also hope in the renewed Netties strikes; up to you to set their range, recon percentage, and day/night rate;
On the good note, we have a good division + brigade and accolites to utterly Destroy on Trinkat, good!
You're not in an easy situation.
Trinkat is taken, and main US Carriers Fleet still operational.
You still have Nagato an Hyuga, + a bunch of destroyers with torps at least (all the Cruisers are out of ammo, right?). I'd keep the Carriers, or part of them, on air cover duty and send the BBs on the wake of the "cripples"...
We also hope in the renewed Netties strikes; up to you to set their range, recon percentage, and day/night rate;
On the good note, we have a good division + brigade and accolites to utterly Destroy on Trinkat, good!
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LargeSlowTarget
- Posts: 5051
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Here is my reasoning for the planned follow-up operations:
Surface action:
The enemy fleet carriers are being covered by at least three modern BBs, plus CAs and CLs. I won't take them on for the slight chance to land a hit on a CV.
However, I will take another stab at the amhibs at Trinkat - if they stay around or are slow to leave (with a crippled CVE). The cruiser SAG which has hit Trinkat last turn has retreated to Phuket. Some cruisers have 50-60% gun ammo left and even a few torps. Nearby are two ASW-TFs with three DDs each, they will merge with the cruisers and rush to Trinkat one again.
I also pulled-out the surface / AA cover of the carriers with some DDs and sent them to Trinkat, while the carriers and the remaining DDs retire at full speed to Singers.
The two cruiser SAGs will retire to Victoria (CAP cover), then sneak down to Georgetown where AKEs and fuel are waiting.
Air action:
My carriers will reach Singers in one day, they are set to refuel and take replacements. Not sure how many replacements they will take and repair during the second day, but if each squadron takes 12 planes, they are close to their max again (since resized to 15-18 planes).
When (or if) I rush out again next turn, I need one day up Malacca Strait back to Sabang (fingers crossed enemy subs have a bad day again) - another day to repair replacement airframes. I will surely be in better shape than right now to pursue action. From Sabang, I can make a sweep across the Bay of Bengal towards Colombo, or wherever Ed is heading (don't we love G3M3s with 26 hex range on naval search?). I won't be able to catch the healthier CVs, unless they stick around. But I may catch a cripple, if engine dmg is great enough. Am counting on a lucky hits by the subs placed in the retreat paths and maybe the Netties at Bangkok which can lug a torp out to 17 hexes and Lily-DBs at Victoria Point which can dive-bomb a few hexes beyond Trinkat.
If the seas are empty, I'm playing with the thought of hitting the port at Colombo - I have been hesitant so far to risk my carriers and I doubt Ed will reckon with such a move. With two-day turns, he may not see me coming before it is too late to do something against it (he did that to me several times).
Surface action:
The enemy fleet carriers are being covered by at least three modern BBs, plus CAs and CLs. I won't take them on for the slight chance to land a hit on a CV.
However, I will take another stab at the amhibs at Trinkat - if they stay around or are slow to leave (with a crippled CVE). The cruiser SAG which has hit Trinkat last turn has retreated to Phuket. Some cruisers have 50-60% gun ammo left and even a few torps. Nearby are two ASW-TFs with three DDs each, they will merge with the cruisers and rush to Trinkat one again.
I also pulled-out the surface / AA cover of the carriers with some DDs and sent them to Trinkat, while the carriers and the remaining DDs retire at full speed to Singers.
The two cruiser SAGs will retire to Victoria (CAP cover), then sneak down to Georgetown where AKEs and fuel are waiting.
Air action:
My carriers will reach Singers in one day, they are set to refuel and take replacements. Not sure how many replacements they will take and repair during the second day, but if each squadron takes 12 planes, they are close to their max again (since resized to 15-18 planes).
When (or if) I rush out again next turn, I need one day up Malacca Strait back to Sabang (fingers crossed enemy subs have a bad day again) - another day to repair replacement airframes. I will surely be in better shape than right now to pursue action. From Sabang, I can make a sweep across the Bay of Bengal towards Colombo, or wherever Ed is heading (don't we love G3M3s with 26 hex range on naval search?). I won't be able to catch the healthier CVs, unless they stick around. But I may catch a cripple, if engine dmg is great enough. Am counting on a lucky hits by the subs placed in the retreat paths and maybe the Netties at Bangkok which can lug a torp out to 17 hexes and Lily-DBs at Victoria Point which can dive-bomb a few hexes beyond Trinkat.
If the seas are empty, I'm playing with the thought of hitting the port at Colombo - I have been hesitant so far to risk my carriers and I doubt Ed will reckon with such a move. With two-day turns, he may not see me coming before it is too late to do something against it (he did that to me several times).
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
+1ORIGINAL: Bif1961
I remember when Nagumo raged quit after Midway. My point was in war mistakes are made and it wasn't some fluky game engine glitch that caused the results you achieved. However if you agree to a do over you are a better man than me. I hope the results aren't an Allied victory because you deserve your hard won victory.
Pax
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LargeSlowTarget
- Posts: 5051
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
August 30/31 turn received, just had a quick look at the replay during lunch break.
The enemy carriers have vanished. No contact by subs or naval search at all.
A few Netties impaled themselves on the LBA-CAP over Port Blair trying to hit some TF whose composition is unknown (although I have set search arcs NOT to pass over Port Blair in order NOT to trigger naval attacks - but I forgot to stand-down the Port Blair recon mission...).
Only the surface stab at Trinkat has drawn blood:
The carriers at Singers have replaced some losses in the bomber squadrons, but some fighter squadrons have not taken any replacements - must take a closer look.
Pondering options - it's probably better to wait for full replacements before trying to hit Colombo.
The enemy carriers have vanished. No contact by subs or naval search at all.
A few Netties impaled themselves on the LBA-CAP over Port Blair trying to hit some TF whose composition is unknown (although I have set search arcs NOT to pass over Port Blair in order NOT to trigger naval attacks - but I forgot to stand-down the Port Blair recon mission...).
Only the surface stab at Trinkat has drawn blood:
Night Time Surface Combat, near Trinkat at 44,64, Range 6,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
CA Takao, Shell hits 1
CA Atago
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Arashio
DD Natsugumo
DD Yamagumo
DD Asagumo
DD Arare
DD Kasumi
Allied Ships
DD Nestor
AVD San Pablo, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
LSI(L) Kanimlba, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AMC Hector, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
Allied ground losses:
1009 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 73 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 19 (19 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (17 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Allied TF begins to get underway
Poor visibility due to Rain with 0% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 0% moonlight: 6,000 yards
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 6,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 6,000 yards
AMC Hector sunk by CA Mikuma at 6,000 yards
CA Atago engages AVD San Pablo at 6,000 yards
CA Takao engages LSI(L) Kanimlba at 6,000 yards
DD Nestor engages CA Mikuma at 6,000 yards
AVD San Pablo sunk by CA Atago at 6,000 yards
LSI(L) Kanimlba sunk by DD Natsugumo at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages DD Nestor at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages DD Nestor at 8,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages DD Nestor at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Mikuma engages DD Nestor at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages DD Nestor at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DD Natsugumo engages DD Nestor at 12,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
The carriers at Singers have replaced some losses in the bomber squadrons, but some fighter squadrons have not taken any replacements - must take a closer look.
Pondering options - it's probably better to wait for full replacements before trying to hit Colombo.
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LargeSlowTarget
- Posts: 5051
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Got the latest turn. This time I'm close to rage-quit this useless time vampire of a game.
Launched another deliberate at Chungking.
That city is surrounded and cut-off.
Yes, it's good defensive terrain with forts build-up to level 6.
However, it has been bombed and bombarded almost daily for many months by what I consider is a respectable concentration of air power and arty.
The defenders should be out of supplies, punch drunk and demoralized.
They have no tanks, they have no AT weapons to speak of, they have little arty, they are outnumbered.
Yet they have withstood one deliberate attacks a couple of weeks ago - with attacking forces tailored to match the stacking limit - with heavy losses to the attackers but at least a fort reduction to level 5 to show for.
This time I amassed forces totaling 260k hex troop level (limit is 160k).
There are lots tanks, there are lots of engineers, there are supplies.
All attacking units are 100% prepped, including four Corps HQs in situ and a Command HQ in range.
Results:
No combat modifiers for my leaders, experience, supplies, no HQ bonus although 5 HQs present.
Not even a f***ing forts reduction this time.
I'm torn between rage and despair.
Maybe I should just abandon the siege of Chungking, abandon China, abandon the SRA the the POA, and hole-up in the Home Islands and wait for the Allied bombers to flatten the economy.
Boy, am I depressed...
Launched another deliberate at Chungking.
That city is surrounded and cut-off.
Yes, it's good defensive terrain with forts build-up to level 6.
However, it has been bombed and bombarded almost daily for many months by what I consider is a respectable concentration of air power and arty.
The defenders should be out of supplies, punch drunk and demoralized.
They have no tanks, they have no AT weapons to speak of, they have little arty, they are outnumbered.
Yet they have withstood one deliberate attacks a couple of weeks ago - with attacking forces tailored to match the stacking limit - with heavy losses to the attackers but at least a fort reduction to level 5 to show for.
This time I amassed forces totaling 260k hex troop level (limit is 160k).
There are lots tanks, there are lots of engineers, there are supplies.
All attacking units are 100% prepped, including four Corps HQs in situ and a Command HQ in range.
Results:
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sep 01, 43
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Morning Air attack on 97th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 24
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st New Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIb Sally x 25
Ki-48-IIa Lily x 25
Ki-51 Sonia x 58
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-51 Sonia: 3 damaged
Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-21-IIb Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
10 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
10 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
10 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
4 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 1st Chinese Base Force ...
Also attacking 1st Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 38th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 27th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 48th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking CAF HQ ...
Also attacking 32nd Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 48th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 14th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 1st New Chinese Corps ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 59th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 24
Ki-48-IIa Lily x 81
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 2 damaged
Allied ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Aircraft Attacking:
28 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
28 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 59th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 96th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 28th Chinese Corps ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 59th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 23
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged
Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 97th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-51 Sonia x 32
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-51 Sonia: 1 damaged
Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking China Command ...
Also attacking 26th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking Central Reserve ...
Also attacking 97th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking China Command ...
Also attacking Central Reserve ...
Also attacking 97th Chinese Corps ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 53rd Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-IIb Lily x 27
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-IIb Lily: 2 damaged
Allied ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb
14 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 1000'
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-48-IIb Lily releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 53rd Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 25
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 damaged
Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Chungking , at 76,45
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 3
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-43-IIIa Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on China Command , at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-51 Sonia x 3
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-51 Sonia: 1 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 38th Chinese Corps, at 76,45 (Chungking)
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-51 Sonia x 4
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 195905 troops, 1869 guns, 1724 vehicles, Assault Value = 5788
Defending force 139877 troops, 509 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3663
Japanese adjusted assault: 2313
Allied adjusted defense: 9109
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 5)
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
57848 casualties reported
Squads: 1197 destroyed, 2485 disabled
Non Combat: 356 destroyed, 862 disabled
Engineers: 490 destroyed, 206 disabled
Guns lost 422 (111 destroyed, 311 disabled)
Vehicles lost 553 (170 destroyed, 383 disabled)
Units destroyed 3
Allied ground losses:
2938 casualties reported
Squads: 21 destroyed, 96 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 30 (1 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Assaulting units:
110th Division
3rd Ind Engineer Regiment
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
37th Division
3rd Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Division
35th Division
22nd Ind Engineer Regiment
1st Cavalry Brigade
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
41st Division
30th Ind Engineer Regiment
24th Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
38th Ind Engineer Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
15th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
70th Division
21st Ind Engineer Regiment
26th Division
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
19th Tank Regiment
13th Division
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
116th Division
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
1st Ind Engineer Regiment
25th Ind Engineer Regiment
7th Ind Engineer Regiment
69th Division
3rd Division
39th Ind Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
11th Army
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Army
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
4th Mortar Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind. Field Artillery Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
Mongol Garrison Army
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Army
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
Defending units:
32nd Chinese Corps
28th Chinese Corps
1st New Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
51st Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
97th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
59th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
Central Reserve
39th Group Army
49th AA Regiment
41st AA Regiment
16th Construction Regiment
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
18th Artillery Regiment
China Command
12th Construction Regiment
CAF HQ
17th Group Army
31st Group Army
32nd Group Army
1st Chinese Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No combat modifiers for my leaders, experience, supplies, no HQ bonus although 5 HQs present.
Not even a f***ing forts reduction this time.
I'm torn between rage and despair.
Maybe I should just abandon the siege of Chungking, abandon China, abandon the SRA the the POA, and hole-up in the Home Islands and wait for the Allied bombers to flatten the economy.
Boy, am I depressed...
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GetAssista
- Posts: 2836
- Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:13 am
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Ouch..
Apart from unfortunate dierolls it looks like Chinese are not fully out of supply yet judgung by their AV. What's with CK industry? Are there any indications that supply is flown in? There is also not that many corps inside, so milder stacking penalties. I'd suggest kill more Chinese outside so that revival ramps up those penalties.
In principle you can let CK live (in hunger) and rack up VPs this way, instead of capturing it and letting all those China squads happily rest offmap waiting for Allies to return. Would be optimal with hemming in all the other Chinese on the map into CK (by killing them).
What kind of disruption do your LCUs carry into battle with the current overstacking?
Apart from unfortunate dierolls it looks like Chinese are not fully out of supply yet judgung by their AV. What's with CK industry? Are there any indications that supply is flown in? There is also not that many corps inside, so milder stacking penalties. I'd suggest kill more Chinese outside so that revival ramps up those penalties.
In principle you can let CK live (in hunger) and rack up VPs this way, instead of capturing it and letting all those China squads happily rest offmap waiting for Allies to return. Would be optimal with hemming in all the other Chinese on the map into CK (by killing them).
What kind of disruption do your LCUs carry into battle with the current overstacking?
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Since the Allies hold Ramree, do they get the magic 500 points of supply per day? And if so, does that automatically go to Chungking? It wouldn't be enough for his army, but it would sure help and maybe that's why they just won't or can't be starved out. Just my speculation.
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GetAssista
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RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
No and no.ORIGINAL: jwolf
Since the Allies hold Ramree, do they get the magic 500 points of supply per day? And if so, does that automatically go to Chungking?
Should be Rangoon not Ramree, plus open burma road. And 500 supply appears at Tsuyung not Chungking.
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Chungking butchery
Exactly, Burma Road is not open since I still hold Rangoon and most of the rail/road across Burma.
I keep units in the hills between Paoshan and Lashio in order to delay the opening of the Burma Road for as long as possible.
We also have a house rule that does not allow bombing of industries in China - so LI at Chungking may create supplies from resource stockpiles.
Chungking gets magic daily supplies which cannot be stopped, but that should be a trickle of what would be needed for an ironman defense.
Those lopsided results are really frustrating. I would expect such results when rushing to Chunking through one hexside and shock-attacking without prior prep point accumulation, without recon, without arty and air preparation but with bad leaders, disruption and low supplies.
But here I have been preparing the battlefield for months and according to the book. I don't see what I have done wrong in my preparations. I certainly did not expect to see Chungking fall, but given the difference in firepower and numbers, I reasonably expected heavier losses on the Chinese side than on my side and a fort reduction or two. I have invested more than the last time but the results are even worse. This is hard to accept.
The actual results are ridiculous. It will take several months to rebuild the shattered units for another try. In the meantime Ed will have reopened the Burma Road. This one freak battle result puts my entire continental strategy in question. China was the only theater where I still could hope to hurt the Allies - now I'm on the defensive here as well. That sucks.
I keep units in the hills between Paoshan and Lashio in order to delay the opening of the Burma Road for as long as possible.
We also have a house rule that does not allow bombing of industries in China - so LI at Chungking may create supplies from resource stockpiles.
Chungking gets magic daily supplies which cannot be stopped, but that should be a trickle of what would be needed for an ironman defense.
Those lopsided results are really frustrating. I would expect such results when rushing to Chunking through one hexside and shock-attacking without prior prep point accumulation, without recon, without arty and air preparation but with bad leaders, disruption and low supplies.
But here I have been preparing the battlefield for months and according to the book. I don't see what I have done wrong in my preparations. I certainly did not expect to see Chungking fall, but given the difference in firepower and numbers, I reasonably expected heavier losses on the Chinese side than on my side and a fort reduction or two. I have invested more than the last time but the results are even worse. This is hard to accept.
The actual results are ridiculous. It will take several months to rebuild the shattered units for another try. In the meantime Ed will have reopened the Burma Road. This one freak battle result puts my entire continental strategy in question. China was the only theater where I still could hope to hurt the Allies - now I'm on the defensive here as well. That sucks.
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Only attack with tank units and full divisions. Don't overstack. Check your disruption, fatigue, percent disabled before attacking. Recover troops in adjacent road hex with HQ.
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GetAssista
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RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Chungking butchery
Oh, that's bad. You cannot count on his resources running out to shut down LI, and there's quite a lot. If his airfield was higher than others in the vicinity for some time, he would have a pile of resources there. And bombing does not do much against supplies inside corps with little AA devices.ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
We also have a house rule that does not allow bombing of industries in China - so LI at Chungking may create supplies from resource stockpiles.
I guess industry house rule + stacking limits + smashed attackers effectively make CK unassailable for you now. Barring allied negligence or lucky rolls with forts it would be very hard in a regular game anyway. Japan should work from the start on killing other Chinese, so that they revive and eventually stay in CK for crazy overstacking. Easier said than done too against good Allied player. You can still do it and reap some hunger rewards from just sieging in time you have left I guess.
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
+1ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Only attack with tank units and full divisions. Don't overstack. Check your disruption, fatigue, percent disabled before attacking. Recover troops in adjacent road hex with HQ.
Stacking limits requires a number of changes to specific tactics. I think you got hit by overstack; some of your units ran out of supply (or were low on supply) BEFORE they attacked and thus suffered ....
Pax
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
Re disruption, overstacking and supplies:
When I ordered the attack, disruption was single-digit for all units involved.
Supplies were good, I have stockpiles in the cities nearby. No unit was "red" supply-wise before the attack and even after the attack none is "red".
Overstacking only happened the turn I launched the attack, i.e. I had troops below the stacking limit in the hex, moved-in the reinforcements and launched the attack immediately after their arrival.
I have also rechecked the leaders, with the exception of two Brigade commanders, all HQ, Div, Bde and Tank Rgt commanders are in the high60s and 70s range, and of the "assault" type.
I have about four divisions left in "fighting shape", i.e. with 80+% TOE strength and the number of disabled squads lower than the number of healthy squad. Those units and the arty will stay at Chungking to continue the arty siege.
The rest will disengage and rebuild. Depending how long this will take, I may try a stab against Kunming in order to plug the supply flow via the Burma Road - Rangoon and the forces between Lashio and Paoshan blocking it will not hold forever.
On the carrier side - no trace of the Allied forces, and my CAGs need more time to rebuild - repairs are slow. Plans for rushing out or hitting Colombo have been shelved.
I may sent the healthier CVs to Kendari / Ambon. Heavy allied bombing attacks on airbases at Koepang and Dili and ground attacks on various islands in the Timor Sea indicate that something is afoot down there. Probably a stab against Selaroe, Saumlaki or Babar, my bases closest to Darwin. Naval search and recon reports much naval activities there and at Bathurst, including landing crafts. Smells fishy.
When I ordered the attack, disruption was single-digit for all units involved.
Supplies were good, I have stockpiles in the cities nearby. No unit was "red" supply-wise before the attack and even after the attack none is "red".
Overstacking only happened the turn I launched the attack, i.e. I had troops below the stacking limit in the hex, moved-in the reinforcements and launched the attack immediately after their arrival.
I have also rechecked the leaders, with the exception of two Brigade commanders, all HQ, Div, Bde and Tank Rgt commanders are in the high60s and 70s range, and of the "assault" type.
I have about four divisions left in "fighting shape", i.e. with 80+% TOE strength and the number of disabled squads lower than the number of healthy squad. Those units and the arty will stay at Chungking to continue the arty siege.
The rest will disengage and rebuild. Depending how long this will take, I may try a stab against Kunming in order to plug the supply flow via the Burma Road - Rangoon and the forces between Lashio and Paoshan blocking it will not hold forever.
On the carrier side - no trace of the Allied forces, and my CAGs need more time to rebuild - repairs are slow. Plans for rushing out or hitting Colombo have been shelved.
I may sent the healthier CVs to Kendari / Ambon. Heavy allied bombing attacks on airbases at Koepang and Dili and ground attacks on various islands in the Timor Sea indicate that something is afoot down there. Probably a stab against Selaroe, Saumlaki or Babar, my bases closest to Darwin. Naval search and recon reports much naval activities there and at Bathurst, including landing crafts. Smells fishy.
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
1. It is a mistake to wait 2 weeks between attacks. Read up my comments in Lowpe's AAR v Joc re how to conduct operations against surrounded enemy forces.
2. Moving the extra units which created an overstack added a 1-5 random increase to disruption and fatigue to all the units. You may think your units were only in single figures but that is not necessarily the actual data which was fed into the combat algorithms. Disruption and fatigue impacts on the "efficiency" of their performance in the combat fire phase. The more ready enemy AV devices which survive the combat fire phase the better the final adjusted AV will be after the terrain, leader and fortification multipliers are applied.
3. Having multiple HQs present doesn't improve the chances of getting favourable bonus combat odds.
Alfred
2. Moving the extra units which created an overstack added a 1-5 random increase to disruption and fatigue to all the units. You may think your units were only in single figures but that is not necessarily the actual data which was fed into the combat algorithms. Disruption and fatigue impacts on the "efficiency" of their performance in the combat fire phase. The more ready enemy AV devices which survive the combat fire phase the better the final adjusted AV will be after the terrain, leader and fortification multipliers are applied.
3. Having multiple HQs present doesn't improve the chances of getting favourable bonus combat odds.
Alfred
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adarbrauner
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RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
How much damage and casualties do your artillery bombardments cause on Chungking, on average?ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
I have about four divisions left in "fighting shape", i.e. with 80+% TOE strength and the number of disabled squads lower than the number of healthy squad. Those units and the arty will stay at Chungking to continue the arty siege.
That sounds as an excellent choice, better than conquering the Chungking code;ORIGINAL LST
The rest will disengage and rebuild. Depending how long this will take, I may try a stab against Kunming in order to plug the supply flow via the Burma Road - Rangoon and the forces between Lashio and Paoshan blocking it will not hold forever.
RE: Duel of the tankers - IdahoNYer vs. LST (J AAR): Redo requested
In the short term, maybe. Long term, taking out CK is very beneficial.
Pax