Fire request

[rico21]

Salut Peter.
J'ai effectué ce petit test pour voir si le % proposé correspondait à la réalité du jeu.
Or, à ma grande surprise, d'après mes tests répétés, la valeur réelle de % correspondrait plutôt à 4.17%.
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Hi Peter,
I did this little test to see if the proposed % matched the reality of the game.
To my great surprise, according to my repeated tests, the real value of % would be rather 4.17%.

[Peter Fisla]

Sorry rico21, 41.7% is correct You have 41% to affect (kill/casualty reduction/morale check) that German unit.

[fuselex]

maybe just a text change - 41% to effect , not 41% to kill ?

[rico21]

J'ai traduis le mot kill par tuer, pas par affecter.
Si ce que tu dis es vrai, celà veut dire que sur trois tirs à 41% la cible est affectée,en théorie, à 100%.
Celà veut dire aussi que dans un scenario quand trois unités peuvent tirer sur la même cible, ce qui arrive plusieurs fois au cours d'un scénario, il serait judicieux de faire tirer ces 3 unités pour neutraliser la cible. Ce qui à l'heure actuelle n'arrive pas.
Celà pourrait s'apparenter au multifire d'ASL qui n'est pas présent dans le jeu.
Merci pour ta réponse Peter.
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I translate the word kill to kill, not to affect.
If what you say is true, it means that on three shots at 41% the target is affected, in theory, to 100%.
It also means that in a scenario when three units can fire on the same target, which happens several times during a scenario, it would be wise to fire these 3 units to neutralize the target. Which at the moment does not happen.
This could be similar to the ASL multifire that is not present in the game.
Thank you for your answer Peter.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: fuselex

maybe just a text change - 41% to effect , not 41% to kill ?

Correct, for personnel it should say "to affect" rather than "to kill" I will change that for the next update.

NOTE: This does not affect the vehicles as you either hit or not and kill or not.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: rico21

J'ai traduis le mot kill par tuer, pas par affecter.
Si ce que tu dis es vrai, celà veut dire que sur trois tirs à 41% la cible est affectée,en théorie, à 100%.
Celà veut dire aussi que dans un scenario quand trois unités peuvent tirer sur la même cible, ce qui arrive plusieurs fois au cours d'un scénario, il serait judicieux de faire tirer ces 3 unités pour neutraliser la cible. Ce qui à l'heure actuelle n'arrive pas.
Celà pourrait s'apparenter au multifire d'ASL qui n'est pas présent dans le jeu.
Merci pour ta réponse Peter.
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I translate the word kill to kill, not to affect.
If what you say is true, it means that on three shots at 41% the target is affected, in theory, to 100%.
It also means that in a scenario when three units can fire on the same target, which happens several times during a scenario, it would be wise to fire these 3 units to neutralize the target. Which at the moment does not happen.
This could be similar to the ASL multifire that is not present in the game.
Thank you for your answer Peter.

You can select say 3 squads, leader and two LMG from the same source hex and then middle click on the target hex and the target advisor will provide the combined value for all your selected units/weapons/leader. Remember, TotH does not support multi-hexes fire group.

[rico21]

[:)]

[rico21]

I would like to know why between the Fire and Advance Fire phase, I was stolen by 8%.[:D]

[UP844]

You will always have a penalty when firing in the Advancing Fire segment, even though you didn't move at all.

[rico21]

I suspected it and even if it's the rule, it's not fair.[:(]
Finally I'm happy, you can not say it's my fault![:D]

[UP844]

Who ever said it was your fault? [:D]

The picture you attached to the opening post is a perfect example of my greatest concern: if the German squad is controlled by a human player, it can slaughter all the Russian squads (I assume its chances to inflict damage are equal or better, since it fires at normal range), without ever receiving a single bullet as return fire. Its possibiliy to survive unscathed 10 fires with a 41.7% chance of being effective is exactly 0,0045% (0.583^10). In other words, the AI has a 99.55% chance to harm the German squad, but it will never grab this chance.

[rico21]

We are agree completely.[8D]
I come to the conclusion that the AI manages its units globally and not one by one and therefore without worrying about optimizing the shooting opportunities of each.Amen.
All good Fuselex?[:D]

[UP844]

I am puzzled because the AFVs controlled by that same AI fire wildly after moving at every possible target they see (with abysmal chances to hit: a Sherman, T-34 or Panther is not a M-1, T-80 or Leopard 2 [:D]). The most common outcome is some weapon malfunction, hardly a valuable result [:D].

[UP844]

I set up one of my "test scenarios", setting up five German AFVs (a StuGIII, a JPzIV (L), a PzIV H, a Tiger I and a Tiger II) six hexes away from a T-34/85.

Much to my surprise, the "To Hit" chance is the same for all the vehicles (75%). I thought high (Tiger I) and very high (Tiger II) were easier to hit and that low vehicles (JPz IV (L)) were conversely harder to hit. This does not appear to be the case [&:], but I remember (though I may be wrong) size has been mentioned as one of the factors affecting the to-hit process. Is this a bug?

[UP844]

Computing the exact % to obtain a specific result when firing to an infantry target is a quite complex affair, since it involves taking into account the target morale level (and the possible presence of a leader). It could be done (somewhere, I should have an Excel sheet I made back in my ASL days), but as a rule of thumb units should have (approximately) the following chances to suffer no damage, according to their morale:

8 = 72.2%
7 = 58.3%
6 = 41.7%

The real probability is somewhat lower, because of the results not subject to MC (K or KIA). So, the 41.7% chance to actually affect the target squad (morale level = 7) drops to approximately .417*.417 = ~ 0.17%.

The actual effect of the fire also greatly depends on the modifiers applied to it.
Whether you fire 2 FP with a -2 modifier or 16 FP with a +3 you will always affect the target with a roll of 8 or less (72.2%). With the 2 FP fire you will obtain a K/KIA with a roll of 2,3 or 4, while with the 16 FP fire you will at most obtain a 3MC result.

Some more questions arising after some time spent playing with the Tactical Advisor:
If the to-hit roll is obtained by "rolling" 2D6, how can you get a "to hit" chance equal to 50% or 75%? [&:]
Is the "% to KILL" for HE fire obtained by multiplying the % to hit by the % to obtain a possible effect on the target?

[rico21]

It helps me a lot to determine that Tactical Advisor not do much. Thanks Carlo.[:D]

[UP844]

On the contrary, the Tactical Advisor is an useful tool. I am afraid that providing an accurate breakdown of the probability of every fire would have required much extra effort for little return.

Take into consideration a simple 2-factor fire, with DRM = 0 and target morale = 7.

On a roll of 2 [1/36 = 2.7%] = K/1
On a roll of 3 [2/36 = 5.5%] = 1 MC
On a roll of 4 [3/36 = 8.3%] = 1 MC
On a roll of 5 [4/36 = 11.1%] = NMC
On a roll of 6 [5/36 = 13.9%] = PTC

So your chances are:
- 2.7% of causing a K + 1 MC (which will result in a break 58.3% of the times) -> 1.1 CR, 1.6% CR+break
- 13.8% of causing a 1 MC (which will result in a break 58.3% of the times) ---> 8% break
- 11.1% of causing a NMC (which will result in a break 41.7% of the times) ---> 4.6% break
- 13.9% of causing a PTC (which will result in a pin 41.7% of the times) ---> 5.7% pin

In the end, the overall chances of getting the various results are:
1.6% = CR + break
1.1% = CR
12.6% = break
5.7% = pin
79.0% = no effect

As a rough approximation, multiplying the 41.7% chance provided by the Tactical Advisor by the 41.7% basic chance to fail a normal morale check for a "7" morale unit, you obtain 17.4% as a result: not too far from the actual chance (21%) to somewhat affect the unit.

Have a nice day! [:D]

[rico21]

it reminds me of what I learned in the army.[:D]

[fuselex]

now that`s all good:)

[Hailstone]

I saw something similar in the Air Force but she was slapping me at the time.[8|]