Desert Storm - The FULL historic Scenario

[Kennetho]

Hi guys,

With the upcoming "official" Desert Storm coming out - I wanted to share the scenario I build for myself.

It is the FULL scenarie - divided with a Western Iraq scenario and a KTO & Eastern Iraq scenario.

It is a massive scenario which has taken me a year to research and moderate.

I hope you like it.
Please give me your feed-back on a better gaming experience or units placed wrong geographically or with a wrong name.


How do I upload my scenario??? I get this error message when trying to upload.

[Kennetho]

Ah - it has to be a zip file... [8D]

Below is my Desert Storm - KTO & Eastern Iraq scenario.

[Kennetho]

… and here is the Desert Storm Western Iraq scenario.


I would appriciate your feed-back on these.

[morphin]

I haven't played it. Unlimmited ammo? What are your thoughts about that?

Andy

[pjb1]

F-4s at Incirlik ready time 1M+1W so wont be ready at all during the scenario?

[magi]

ORIGINAL: pjb1

F-4s at Incirlik ready time 1M+1W so wont be ready at all during the scenario?

Geeezz..... there is so much stuff in this scenario i didnt even nitice that.....

[fatgreta1066]

I played A LOT of a previous scenario of this battle that you'd posted. Did you abandon that one? I posted a couple of times on that old thread and never heard back from you.

I found in playing that that the initial strikes were a lot of fun to plan, but once the radars and SAMs were all destroyed it was tough to keep going. Strike packages took heavy, heavy losses when hunting for ground units, and bombing buildings became a bit repetitive. I wonder if this game engine doesn't really handle such massive unit counts very well. Nothing I could do except manually control individual aircraft kept SAMs attached to ground units from killing massive numbers of allied aircraft, way way way more than were shot down in the actual conflict. Similarly, I couldn't figure out a way to send F-117's in without being detected and shot down. When I looked figures up I think I found that none or one of those airplanes was brought down, in this game about half were taken out. And that was after SEAD strikes eliminated 100% of Iraqi radars and fixed SAM sites.

You had set up some pretty cool seeming missions for special forces units to go SCUD hunting but I think in the last version I played they weren't properly configured, or at least I couldn't see how to work them.

I'll take a look at these and see how similar they look to what I remembered. I think that dividing them into two scenarios is a very good idea due to high unit counts.

[magi]

i know you have done a lot of work here..... but your formations and groups are not well done here... it kind of bugs me.....
as i know its very time consuming to make them better so i would be willing to help with this.. if you would like...
you can contact me in messenger as we have chatted the other day...

here is a link to the OOB of naval groups....

http://www.tim-thompson.com/gwobnavy.html

[magi]

in war east you must adjust the orientation of the piers at Qsar naval base...

[fatgreta1066]

I notice that you have 5 airbases represented in both the East and the West scenarios. If the idea is to have each scenario be half of the war then that allows for double dipping. The Eastern and Western air commanders both get access to all of those aircraft to use at their discretion.

[fatgreta1066]

In the Western scenario you have a few Badgers at H# readying for an ASuW mission with a ferry loadout. Also 2 Fulcrums in Mosul readying for an AAW patrol with a ferry loadout.

Am I right that you've axed the idea of inserting SF units into Iraq to help hunt SCUDs?

[pjb1]

Approx 50 mins into the western scenario you get a msg regarding grounding of Mirage F.1s, I can find none of these aircraft on the player side.

[fatgreta1066]

Last year he posted this as one massive scenario and that event was part of the scenario. It may be that when chopping them in half he forgot to disable that event. IIRC the Mirage F.1s were based in the eastern part of Arabia so they may be present in the Eastern scenario.

[Kennetho]

Hi guys,

Historically, these F-4s weren't ready before the last week of the war. So it's in compliance with historic events.

[Kennetho]

Hi pjb,

Yeah right, it's a "left over" from when my East and West scenario was one.

[Kennetho]

Hi fatgreta,

You're totally correct, the metrics of the game is quite different from what happened back in 91.
But then again, it wouldn't be fun to play if the Iraqis rolled over as they did in the Gulf War?


Yeah, this scenario is all about patience, committing the right force at the right time and not put all forces up at the same time.

But as you mention, there a so many things you want to emulate from historic events, that just isn't possible in the game.

1) F-117 aren't stealth!!!

2) Although you shut down the radars, SAMs still shoot with large accuracy. As I understand from my research, targeting planes with search radar embedded in the Sa-2 and SA-6 would be the same as looking through a straw.

3) The LGB's with BLU109 doesn't penetrate hardened hangers.

4) Jamming doesn't seem to have any effect at all.


If I don't micromanage every single engagement my planes are shot down left and right. Even if the loadout is long range guided weapons like AGM-123 Skipper, the planes will stray into SAM range.


I can't get my planes to stay at high altitude when the engage, which were one of the BASICS during the first stage of the air war, the descend to predefined altitude 12.000 feet.
Also helicopters - in particular my Marine AH-1 Cobras from MAG-50 - are suffering a lot when venturing into KTO, so I decided to keep them out of the battle.

About the Special Forces...
Yeah, in my original scenario I had all the SF's lined up for insertion behind enemy lines - ready for intel gathering, laser targeting and SCUD detection. I just couldn't get it to work. The unit didn't load into the chopper.
J-STAR and RF-4s do a great job detecting ground units, so I decided to take the SF units out of the newest scenarion.

I hope to hear your input soon on your experience from this game. I'll be posting a version 1.2 VERY soon. I have particularly had focus on ARMY helicopter units (although they played little part of the strategic air campaign the first month of the war)

BR
Kenneth

[Kennetho]

ORIGINAL: magi

i know you have done a lot of work here..... but your formations and groups are not well done here... it kind of bugs me.....
as i know its very time consuming to make them better so i would be willing to help with this.. if you would like...
you can contact me in messenger as we have chatted the other day...

here is a link to the OOB of naval groups....

http://www.tim-thompson.com/gwobnavy.html

Hi,
Thanks for your input - I appriciate that.
I guess you're referring to the naval formations as air should be 99,9% correct?

Well, the focus of this scenario is the air campaign. Actually the full title of the scenarios (on my own computer) is Desert Storm - the strategic air campaign.
That being said I actually created to naval groups according to the link that you also supplied above.

Only the carrier groups are grouped in one group in stead of individual groups. However, the only "function" the naval forces have in this scenario is as launch platforms for planes and TLAMs. And then again you may choose to use the navy to hunt the Iraqi naval units down. Beware of the mines though. [:D][:D]

[Kennetho]

ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066

I played A LOT of a previous scenario of this battle that you'd posted. Did you abandon that one? I posted a couple of times on that old thread and never heard back from you.

I found in playing that that the initial strikes were a lot of fun to plan, but once the radars and SAMs were all destroyed it was tough to keep going. Strike packages took heavy, heavy losses when hunting for ground units, and bombing buildings became a bit repetitive. I wonder if this game engine doesn't really handle such massive unit counts very well. Nothing I could do except manually control individual aircraft kept SAMs attached to ground units from killing massive numbers of allied aircraft, way way way more than were shot down in the actual conflict. Similarly, I couldn't figure out a way to send F-117's in without being detected and shot down. When I looked figures up I think I found that none or one of those airplanes was brought down, in this game about half were taken out. And that was after SEAD strikes eliminated 100% of Iraqi radars and fixed SAM sites.

You had set up some pretty cool seeming missions for special forces units to go SCUD hunting but I think in the last version I played they weren't properly configured, or at least I couldn't see how to work them.

I'll take a look at these and see how similar they look to what I remembered. I think that dividing them into two scenarios is a very good idea due to high unit counts.

Hi fatgreta,

You're totally correct, the metrics of the game is quite different from what happened back in 91.
But then again, it wouldn't be fun to play if the Iraqis rolled over as they did in the Gulf War?


Yeah, this scenario is all about patience, committing the right force at the right time and not put all forces up at the same time.

But as you mention, there a so many things you want to emulate from historic events, that just isn't possible in the game.

1) F-117 aren't stealth!!!

2) Although you shut down the radars, SAMs still shoot with large accuracy. As I understand from my research, targeting planes with search radar embedded in the Sa-2 and SA-6 would be the same as looking through a straw.

3) The LGB's with BLU109 doesn't penetrate hardened hangers.

4) Jamming doesn't seem to have any effect at all.


If I don't micromanage every single engagement my planes are shot down left and right. Even if the loadout is long range guided weapons like AGM-123 Skipper, the planes will stray into SAM range.


I can't get my planes to stay at high altitude when the engage, which were one of the BASICS during the first stage of the air war, the descend to predefined altitude 12.000 feet.
Also helicopters - in particular my Marine AH-1 Cobras from MAG-50 - are suffering a lot when venturing into KTO, so I decided to keep them out of the battle.

About the Special Forces...
Yeah, in my original scenario I had all the SF's lined up for insertion behind enemy lines - ready for intel gathering, laser targeting and SCUD detection. I just couldn't get it to work. The unit didn't load into the chopper.
J-STAR and RF-4s do a great job detecting ground units, so I decided to take the SF units out of the newest scenarion.

I hope to hear your input soon on your experience from this game. I'll be posting a version 1.2 VERY soon. I have particularly had focus on ARMY helicopter units (although they played little part of the strategic air campaign the first month of the war)

BR
Kenneth

Hi fatgreta, You're totally correct, the metrics of the game is quite different from what happened back in 91. But then again, it wouldn't be fun to play if the Iraqis rolled over as they did in the Gulf War? Yeah, this scenario is all about patience, committing the right force at the right time and not put all forces up at the same time. But as you mention, there a so many things you want to emulate from historic events, that just isn't possible in the game. 1) F-117 aren't stealth!!! 2) Although you shut down the radars, SAMs still shoot with large accuracy. As I understand from my research, targeting planes with search radar embedded in the Sa-2 and SA-6 would be the same as looking through a straw. 3) The LGB's with BLU109 doesn't penetrate hardened hangers. 4) Jamming doesn't seem to have any effect at all. If I don't micromanage every single engagement my planes are shot down left and right. Even if the loadout is long range guided weapons like AGM-123 Skipper, the planes will stray into SAM range. I can't get my planes to stay at high altitude when the engage, which were one of the BASICS during the first stage of the air war, the descend to predefined altitude 12.000 feet. Also helicopters - in particular my Marine AH-1 Cobras from MAG-50 - are suffering a lot when venturing into KTO, so I decided to keep them out of the battle. About the Special Forces... Yeah, in my original scenario I had all the SF's lined up for insertion behind enemy lines - ready for intel gathering, laser targeting and SCUD detection. I just couldn't get it to work. The unit didn't load into the chopper. J-STAR and RF-4s do a great job detecting ground units, so I decided to take the SF units out of the newest scenarion. I hope to hear your input soon on your experience from this game. I'll be posting a version 1.2 VERY soon. I have particularly had focus on ARMY helicopter units (although they played little part of the strategic air campaign the first month of the war) BR Kenneth

[Kennetho]

ORIGINAL: morphin

I haven't played it. Unlimmited ammo? What are your thoughts about that?

Andy

Hi Andy,

Thx for your input.
In my research I didn't encounter anything on lack of munitions. Even in the last days of the war expensive LGB were used for killing tanks in "tank plinking" missions by heavy bombers such as F-111s and F-15s.

[Kennetho]

ORIGINAL: fatgreta1066

In the Western scenario you have a few Badgers at H# readying for an ASuW mission with a ferry loadout. Also 2 Fulcrums in Mosul readying for an AAW patrol with a ferry loadout.

Am I right that you've axed the idea of inserting SF units into Iraq to help hunt SCUDs?

Hmm, will look into the Badgers and Fulcrums U mention.
Concerning SFs, see my answer below/above (wherever it is [;)])